IoT Coffee Talk
Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk where we talk tech and all things related to the Internet of Things. This program was started by a group of friends who just happen to be thought leaders, experienced practitioners and business leaders in the technology and communications services industries and more. This pod will feature weekly recordings of our casual conversations on the tech topics of the day with the hopes of delivering engaging and thought-provoking insights to our audience. We hope you enjoy program.
IoT Coffee Talk
#306 AI-assisted Friendly Fire
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Good jam, good jam.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Oh, it's so good, man. Wow.
SPEAKER_04Van Halen.
SPEAKER_02You know, I think it's possible that people will mistake IT Coffee Talk for a Van Halen cover band. You know that.
SPEAKER_01We're supposed to go on the road, guys. What the hell?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Well. Well, we have been on the road. We have been on the road.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we have been. That's true. You know, the funny thing is, I have been playing. Um, the only reason why I didn't end up joining all of you guys on the aircraft carrier is because I was in San Francisco at a uh I don't know if it's a speakeasy or a club, but yeah, the folks at Cisco and uh Zscaler and Omnia they hosted uh a jam, and so I got a really cool yeah, it was really cool, and they have a lot of talented musicians. Yeah, Omdia, yeah, as well as Cisco, so it was pretty impressive. Do you remember what songs you did? Uh Oya Komova, there was uh Beat It, I mean not Beat It, uh Another One Bites the Dust. All right, um and then I jumped in on a few others. I don't remember. I had uh quite a few um old-fashioned, so this is great. I see. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03After the third or fourth one, it gets a little busy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So hey everybody, IoT Coffee Talk watchers and listeners. Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. Um, and remember to be here to take us seriously. Don't take us seriously. I was gonna say, I was gonna say at your own risk. Yeah. Don't take us seriously because we're just having fun, and we may eke out some informational stuff, but it's mostly for entertainment purposes only. That's right. If you're not careful, if you're not careful, you may learn something, right?
SPEAKER_03That's what Fat Albert used to say.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, fat Albert, that's a blast. I love that. That's that's where I learned my moral. Hey, hey, hey. I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh. That's cool. I can imagine you guys doing Oye Coma Va, man. That's a good dream. That's a good dream. Yeah, that's a great you know. I saw um, I saw Greg Raleigh from Santana and Journey. Really? But it it was it was almost like last year or whatever. Got together, you know. A lot of people don't realize that Journey came from Santana. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um Neil Shaw was the prodigy player. That's right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And so uh what that's such a cool song, it's so unique, you know.
SPEAKER_03Um I saw Santana at the Saratoga Performing Arts Center. It was like one of my first concerts I ever went to. It was uh it was pretty wild. Yeah, that was a good initiation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is. That's a great initiation, dude.
SPEAKER_01What the hell? Hey, Pete, you sound really good. What the hell are you wearing? I'm just AirPod Pro 3. Really? Yeah. No, the mics on these things. It sounds like you're on a friggin' pro mic.
SPEAKER_03No, I I I think the mics on these things, that's kind of a secret weapon. I think it's really they're really good. Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_02I think you just now I think Apple's gonna send both of you little in the mail, you know, brought to you by. Yeah, I thought you were on a pro mic. Oh, it's just AirPods Pro 3 Quote unquote.
SPEAKER_03That'll be clipped. That's AI clip right there. Yeah, I'm actually on the street here in San Diego with my coffee. Oh, awesome! Awesome. Enjoying a little San Diego morning. We're here all weekend after the big show, and uh we're gonna go grab some breakfast. Congratulations. Yeah, that was fun. That was intense. I mean, it started on Monday. We had Monday, we had a board meeting, we had a partner, like two-hour partner thing at Qualcomm. We had the VIP reception Monday night. We had three full days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday of talks and workshops and panels and mixers. And yeah, the Midway. We were on the USS Midway the other night. So today is a day of quiet and a day of rest. Wonderful. There you go. Yeah, great event, Pete.
SPEAKER_02You knock it out of the park, man. Oh, thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was great to see both of you there. And um yeah, no, it was a lot of fun. It's fun, you know, to catch up with folks in real life. I mean, frankly, that's one of the benefits of these things, right? Is folks that you see on these little screens that you get to see in person every so often. So that was cool. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_02Workshops going the whole time. Yeah, the workshops were hot.
SPEAKER_03You know, they were packed. Yeah, yeah. You know, there's just a desire for people to get hands-on with this stuff and learn it, which is great.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, what I what I was really impressed with was just the technical substance. It was awesome. I actually I learned a lot of stuff. Uh just uh you know through osmosis, you know, half of the stuff. There's no way I could understand it because this is like deep research.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we had a whole research track, so we had a bunch of PhD candidates presenting their research. And you know, a lot of them, I mean, some of them went straight to math camp. Others, I think, also did a really good job of explaining it for everybody else, right? Who's like not a PhD candidate? Yeah, uh, so that was cool, yeah. And so you do learn stuff just by kind of soaking it in a little bit. Yeah. Uh we had some we had a professor from UCSD and one from UC Riverside, and and all that. So yeah, that adds a nice little element. And also the nice thing is those aren't product pitches. You know, they're just talking about the tech and what's possible and how things work, and there's no sales pitch at the end, um, which is refreshing, I think, these days.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, CSD should absolutely be saying one of the best engineering schools there is out there. Thank you. Yeah, they're represented, they represented a lot of tritons there.
SPEAKER_03A lot of tritons.
SPEAKER_00That's right. I still to this day don't know what the hell a mascot is for the triton with a damn pitchfork.
SPEAKER_03They're gonna stab you, man. They're coming for you.
SPEAKER_00Oh that part sucked, man. I mean, you know, and the two schools I go to don't have a real fucking mascot. Really? Stanford has a tree. That's a tree. UCSD has a damn Triton. What the heck?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know what? That is true. What it's a pitchfork, and that's my alma mater, man. So you and me both. That's like, um, yeah. Well, maybe it's King Triton. Is it King Triton or is it the Triton itself? I don't know. Um King Triton is a few years. There's Triton and then there's Trident, right? Trident, but yeah, it is pretty much pitchfork. And I don't know. Is there like an old dude with like a fish body?
SPEAKER_03I think there is a guy who runs around there. I saw the guy, yeah, yeah. Yeah, isn't there a costume?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, you're right. But yeah, my wife Kathy always complains about Stanford having a tree. What's a what's a cardinal? You know, and our deal is like fear the tree.
SPEAKER_00Go trees! Go trees. I mean, I mean, what we got pollen, we got pollen, that's what we got. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I didn't I didn't know that you uh you went to UCSD, dude. That's awesome. Oh no wonder, no wonder we're like brothers, man. Uh okay, okay. Yeah, uh yeah, serious, serious stuff.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, but just yeah, uh you know, also Pete, the venue you found, Eve. What a cool place.
SPEAKER_03That was nice, nice, you know. We're looking at the harbor, yeah, and uh yeah, brand new place. So it was good to break it in a little bit. And uh beautiful, yeah, very high quality. So yeah, we had a great event.
SPEAKER_00I had to miss that. I I wanted I wanted to come. It was just on the hills of Smart Cities Connect and GCC.
SPEAKER_03And I was I know it's crowded, it's crowded. Well, we'll see you in London June 8th and 9th. So that's the next and 9th. All right. L O N D O N.
SPEAKER_00What's the weather? What's the weather like there in London?
SPEAKER_01Let's take an umbrella, man.
SPEAKER_02Summertime?
SPEAKER_03Uh it's the usual.
SPEAKER_02You never know. You never know. And also, you know, Pete, meet the requirement because all the people uh, you know, in the edge AI deal, they all said, you know, at the next event has to have a view of at least two aircraft carriers. And you delivered. You know, you delivered. There you go. Yeah, we had at least two, maybe three. Yeah, three. Right.
SPEAKER_03Well, we had on the third day, we had uh this rear admiral Doug Small from the Navy give a really good talk. And uh and that was great, great context about the challenges of integrating AI uh and edge AI into kind of naval platforms, you can imagine. You know, he's saying it takes it takes like 10 years to build a ship. The ship's in in use for 50 years, you know, and how do you how do you and never mind the fact that it needs to work on a submarine and all this other stuff? So it's just a super challenge.
SPEAKER_01You missed out, dude. I was like thinking Rob Tiffany half of his uh Yeah, that was a very much a Rock Tiffany discussion. Yeah, yeah. Can you stick that shit in a submarine, you know? Like, okay. How come Rob's not here? Why did he take off?
SPEAKER_02I had to go catch a plane, but you're right. I should have I should have changed my flight. He had to go, he had to wait in that TSA line.
SPEAKER_01Hey, I I was just uh I was just about to say, um Bill, you got you gotta pick up some of these uh AirPod threes, dude. AirPod Pro or whatever threes. AirPod Pro 3 this guy? Look at listen, he's outside, dude. Test one, too.
SPEAKER_00Can you believe it? The noise suppression sounds awesome.
SPEAKER_01I know. Off the chain, man. It's crazy. Hey, you go order something else. You're giving like free advertising, dude. But then that is it, yeah. Edge AI to the right.
SPEAKER_02That's what it is. That's what it is. See, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. So I am I'm I'm auditioning the uh new Samsung their V4 version of their pro. This is like okay. Are we like a benchmark? It's like a benchmark. And so when we play this back, and we'll all be able to hear what we all sounded like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll be able to go, wow, did did Samsung improve?
SPEAKER_01I can tell you right now it's losing.
SPEAKER_03Oh no, oh no, no point oh, no, no point no.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, you know, so much for I don't subscribe to either one of them, neither Apple nor Samsung on that end. It's status. Yeah, status. The status, the status, no, the status earbuds. Oh really?
SPEAKER_01But you're probably it's probably um powered by uh Snapdragon in all likelihood.
SPEAKER_03Yes, probably most of them are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You're going from bad to worse there. Yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_02It's like a double amount. I didn't feel I have to admit, I didn't feel so isolated, you know, having a Samsung device at this event, yeah, you know, cut uh unlike everyone else with iPhones, because you know, Qualcomm brought the love, and Qualcomm is in love with this stuff because that's their that's their showcase for the high-end Snapdragon. Um was incredible.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he was great. He was great. Yeah, yeah, he was great. It was really good. So that stuff's gonna start getting on YouTube next week. So people channel him. Awesome.
SPEAKER_02So good. And we had experienced that. We had a guy from AWS talked about what they're doing with physical AI.
SPEAKER_03David Randall, physical AI. Yeah, that was great. That was great. Deep X, DeepX was there. Yeah, talking about the NPUs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was a really cool pretty cool stuff. Real real heavy hitters, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That was good. Impressed.
SPEAKER_03I'm wearing my local, I don't know, this is like supposed to be a local famous record store.
SPEAKER_02Boo boo records. San Louis Bispo, okay. Dude love it. Dude love it. Okay. That's awesome. We are always trying to find cool record stores.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it has quite a few. Oh, really? Yeah, they do. Okay. I mean, every time I take my daughter thrift shopping, we you know, it's gotta stop in there. Uh so I mean good shout out.
SPEAKER_01That's a good thing. Yeah, yeah, that was um, yeah, and one of the things that I took away from Admiral uh retired Admiral Small's uh talk was um the the military is not going bonkers, they're actually learning a lot of really important things out in the field in the application of AI. And you know, if you want to talk about a constrained um intense environment, that's what the military environments are, right, Rob? Sure. Like a lot of these um field scenarios, and they're very cautious uh about how they apply AI, and there's a lot of human on the loop. If there's any loop that's created, there's a human on it, right? Human on the loop, right? Yeah, and there's all these novel um system uh um designs uh you know and flows that are not entirely autonomous, right? It really is to inform and uh provide the human with the decision and control uh to uh to um decide what the outcome is of anything, right? Especially the the kill decision. And so these these uh people romping around GTC, they are so off. You know what I'm saying? What were they doing? What were they saying? No, because they they're all going around thinking that everything's gonna be autonomous, and then all the while you have these freaking kung fu robots in the background being remote controlled. And so but here's the good thing there's accountability. So when if one of these robots accidentally kicks the shit out of like uh a bystander, that human is responsible for it, right? So one of the things that um was brought up um actually um by uh G2 Patel and uh you know during his Cisco presentation at RSAC was the accountability aspect. How do you associate accountability to AI agents? How do you associate uh accountability to anything that you deem autonomous, right? Because these things can go rogue on you. AI is not dependable. Um and but who's responsible? What's the chain of responsibility and accountability? So um, you know, for a while, I think a lot of the stuff is gonna be remote control. For all we know, Waymo is just a bunch of uh folks in India remote control uh you know operating these cars. Yikes, but some of the most talented uh you know, remote drivers in the world. Yeah, yeah. Think about it. How good of a driver you have to be to drive in India, right?
SPEAKER_02The best driver.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, you know, and you can have like a hundred millisecond latency guys are probably still the best drivers in the world. It's just mayhem, yeah. They're actually a combination of the worst and the best drivers.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that's right. That's a that's a well said. That's absolutely yeah, you know, it's funny talking about this this tech and AI and edge and everything in the military. You know, in the past, uh um military and tech, I used to keep my mouth shut talking about stuff like that because a whole lot of people in a lot of tech companies were violently against their company doing anything with the US military. Yeah, and they would boycott and they say, We're all quitting, or whatever. And I remember this at Google and lots of places. Um, and there's definitely been a sea change because I can see it and hear it everywhere. The hottest area for most startups and tech people I know is going after defense these days. And I I never would have thought that would happen, and yet they're like, That's we're all in, and that's where the money is. DOD.
SPEAKER_00That's crazy though. That's crazy. It is crazy talk as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, yeah. Going after going after, I mean the DOD and DHS and all of that stuff. It the the so Leonard, it was the same thing I said in in the comments when you and I were going back and forth. And and and it equates for me down to accountability. Yeah. Um, and and the and the simple fact that right now tech is we've talked about tech outpacing policy and everything like that, but never have I seen it outpace policy and standards the way that it is today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So to go after uh the DOD in the way that I'm seeing it happen, I'm like, that's crazy talk. The majority of them don't even understand, nor do they have a military background to understand what it is that they're really doing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Well, that's where there needs to be more dialogue about uh what qualifies the tech for you know deployment and those things and that and like these discussions around accountability. It was good to hear the Admiral talking about like getting it on the loop. And uh he even said like some of the back office uh kind of consumer tech that the military uses, you know, needs to be reconsidered. I mean, there was a anecdote I heard about some aircraft carrier, and it was like some there's some stealth ship at sea was out there. This is recently on a French stealth carrier, which I don't know. French stealth carrier. There's no such thing. I never even heard of that. But anyway, this this uh sailor was like running their laps or whatever, doing their morning jog around the deck, and they had their Strava on, and they were basically broadcasting their location through Strava and basically defeating the whole hundred billion dollar stealth tech, you know, with like one guy running his laps.
SPEAKER_02One guy.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god. So you thought think about all the tech that you know, sailors and folks use too. That all needs to be redone. But I mean, at least there's a good dialogue now going about it and and and hopefully intersecting with some of these rules around accountability, safety. We had a we had a uh presentation on sort of data provenance and how do you authenticate you know the data that the models were trained on and things like that. Yeah, I agree with Bill. It's it's the cart is way ahead of the horse at this point.
SPEAKER_01Uh so that needs to get fixed. I think CD ROM technology is gonna come back because everyone you you're not gonna be able to stream BTS and Taylor Swift to your carrier Bernoulli boxing group. I think that's the new that's what I'm investing in. What the what the hell is a stealth carrier anyway? I mean, how do you have a stealth carrier? You wouldn't be able to launch anything off of it, right? I mean, that's like a I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I mean No, you you launch stealth planes off of a stealth carrier, obviously.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but just because you have a stuff doesn't mean that you have a stealth carrier.
SPEAKER_03But it's still Leonard. It's still stealthy.
SPEAKER_00Because you just give Jeff Bezos a call and you launch him off of his yacht.
SPEAKER_02There you go.
SPEAKER_03Turn off those satellites for a few minutes, you know.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, like there's all these uh fanboys for Palmer Lucky, uh, you know, over at Antril, and they're just seeing all this super advanced tech, and they're seeing one of their people from Silicon Valley just taking it to Lockheed and General Dynamics and all these established you know defense contractors and saying we can beat them all, you know? And so it's driving, you know, a lot of excitement, I guess, for startup founders. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Who knows? Hey folks, I apologize, but I'm gonna go grab some breakfast.
SPEAKER_01Okay, hey, it's been a pleasure. Congratulations, dude. All right, yes, yeah, see you all back in Seattle.
SPEAKER_02All right, all right.
SPEAKER_01Dude, this thing just looks like a carrier. I don't see anything stealth about it.
SPEAKER_00What the hell? Squashing stealth. The stealth part about it was that they told no one until until the other guy was running around with his airpods on.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Oh my god. Yeah. Wait, no, I mean, see, this is all it's it's all bullshit, man. There is no such thing. Built for stealth drones.
SPEAKER_02I mean, we've got some stealth like frigates and destroyers that are shaped really funky and everything to reduce their radar profile on the water um at a certain range um to help them not be identified as quickly. But a carrier's too big.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's too big to hide. Yeah. Well, I mean, you gotta you basically have a city on the water.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, even so they have this thing called uh French's uh Dulsol. I mean, it just launches the Raphael M. It's a 4.5 generation fighter. Quasi-stealth. I mean, so I'm looking at this Google thingy, and it's it's half of this stuff is like bullshit. Um yeah, no, it's not a stealth carrier. Uh, anyways, yeah, it's ridiculous. Imagine, that would be great though, right? Then you wouldn't have to have a carrier group. You get rid of all of the support ships, right? Just operate this wonderful carrier in the middle of nowhere. I mean, that's why you have carrier groups to protect the aircraft carrier, right? Yeah, yeah, Rob, you're you're the you're the friggin' naval guy. You know?
SPEAKER_02No, there's that fear of these sitting duck decoys floating on the ocean, you know, and you you worry about enemy planes, enemy missiles getting too close, right? Yeah, yeah. And so uh yeah, they're out there trying to protect the carrier. Yeah. Which is gonna be harder and harder to do, honestly, moving forward with these hypersonic missiles and stuff like that. It's it's tough. It really is tough.
SPEAKER_01Well, that was one of the Yeah. Yeah. And especially now that these things are not only plane based, they can be launched off of like uh medium-range bombers and stuff like that, fighter bombers even, um, or even fighter planes. I think um, like in some of the new um Chinese um Chinese fighter planes can uh carry their latest hypersonic missiles. And same with um, I think uh Russia's using uh MiG-25 uh or MiG-28 Foxbat. You know what I'm saying? How are you gonna catch that thing goes like Mach 3.2? That thing is like hypersonic, right? And I think they're using that as a uh hypersonic uh uh launch platform.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but the best hypersonic plane, I saw Tom Cruise fly this dark star thing. Yeah. I wish he hadn't he'd pushed it too far, though. It's like just stay at Mach 10. Don't go to 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, don't do it, Mav. Don't do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, just you know, don't don't break the Mach 10 barrier. Um, but one of the things I was gonna ask the Admiral, I didn't want to do it because it would probably put him on the spot, is um should the US military, if you look at the the spend, completely rethink uh the future of um the Navy, uh naval warfare and naval uh investments in carrier groups. Because now eventually they'll be sitting ducks, like you're saying. Um and then uh some of these hypersonic weapons they're kinetic, so even if you hit 'em, there's still a probability because these things are coming at you at hypersonic speeds. The kinetic force create I actually a lot of some of these don't even have a warhead. They they're kinetic weapons, right? They're just getting picture. Yeah, yeah. Like remember the rail guns that they were developing? There's no explosive tip. It it's literally the velocity of the projectile causes the explosion, kind of like a meteorite, you know, when it comes in. The velocity is so um high that when it makes impact, it creates uh sort of uh an explosion, right? Yeah, including the yeah.
SPEAKER_02Navy's been testing rail guns as well as lasers high energy, you know. Yeah, um, it's pretty interesting stuff for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, lasers suck because you they attenuate, and if you have crappy weather, you can't do anything.
SPEAKER_02And so you can imagine how policy can be affected. Like right now, when you are going up against a second or third tier power, yeah and you're able to have your carriers and just attack like Iran in this case at will, and it's effortless. You can see a lot of people saying, Yeah, carriers rock, look what we've done. We've got all these carriers for projecting power the way we've always done, and it's awesome. But it's a big different game if your adversary is a tier one adversary like a Russia or China. Yeah, the game changes because they've got a different level of weaponry, you know, than a tier two or tier three power would have, right? But we've seen a lot of talk track during this war of yeah, we as far as bombers, I know you've all seen the same thing. Yeah, first we came in with the B-2 stealth bombers, and then we've just taken out so much stuff that then can come a B-1 supersonic bomber, and then now we're bringing in B-52s that are 70 years old, and a lot of people go, Well, that's great. Oh my god. Think about that. But the reason you can bring in a B-52 is because all their air defenses have been wiped out, and so they can just fly at will. But would a B-52 be able to do that against China or Russia? No. No, they wouldn't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, yeah. Well, you know, but the here the other thing that we've learned from in the war in Ukraine is that what used to be the staple of ground warfare, which is the tank and the APC, uh it are now death traps because of these very, very cheap drones. And so now everyone is nailing each other with drones and taking out um infantry people with these uh really low-cost drones. So the economics are changing. And so that was really gonna be the basis of my question to him because you have these Shaheed uh drones, right, which are basically cheap cruise missiles, right? Really slow uh cruise missiles. Could you get you?
SPEAKER_02They're like 20, 20 grand, 30 grand, whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 20, 30 grand, and then a top of a cruise missile cost you like two million bucks, right?
SPEAKER_02I mean, you know, economics aren't sustainable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then we're like, okay, we just ran out of um, you know, we hit 10 targets at a cost of 20 million dollars. Right. Right. You know, one of the interesting things was you know, and I I sent you um that article about how the Shahids are hitting radar installations, right? Early warning um radar installations in some of the friendly uh you know countries in the Gulf and or you know, yeah, the Persian Gulf. And uh they're using uh, you know, like the harm missile, right? They're anti-radiation, it's anti-radiation missile, right? I don't know what the H stands for, but it's anti-radiation missile, but it's it these are missiles that are launched at radars, they track in on the radar uh pulse actually that comes out of uh radar station, and then they take those things out. And uh the Shaheed has there is a a variety that does that, so it's crazy, and you know, it only costs $20,000, and they take out a $20 million radar site. Do you know what I'm saying? So they're they're flipping the economics of all of this, and so that was gonna be the the just of the question that I was gonna ask them. But you know, that was that would have probably been better for like you know beer. Offline, yeah. No, you're right. So I'm doing it online right now.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know what? You know, it's funny, Leonard. You know, we've been doing this a long time, but I know you and I have talked about doing a separate show that's just about that's just about tech military and defense and what's going on with that, you know. Um before there were any conflicts, just like you know, because there's so much to talk about, you know.
SPEAKER_01That's but but you know, it might be there, uh and you know, I know I I I totally know where you're coming from, Bill. Um but there may be benefit because there's a certain level of uh leadership where they they're drinking the AI Kool-Aid and probably making some really bad decisions on how to use AI uh to win, right? And there's lessons that are apparent at the edge. And some of the and you know, Bill, just so that you know, the Admiral was not hyping this stuff up crazy. Yeah, I can't hear you, dude.
SPEAKER_00I I don't think I don't think he was at all.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, actually some of the stuff he was sharing, like friggin' folks at GTC should listen to. You know, I mean, this is like, look, this stuff uh is not it it cannot be used in mission critical applications the way that you think. No, you're not gonna be running friggin' GPUs uh at the edge of the you know military uh theater. You're going to you're going to use it in a very, very uh precision way that gives you advantage and also balances that with safety. Because you know, the whole friendly fire risk. You can't have these things going around, let's say that it it's all swarm integrated with federated learning and all this fancy shit, going and then killing all your troops because there's no discernment, you know. I mean, you know, uh, friendly fire stuff is it can be could you know uh can be a huge catastrophic risk if you're using AI improperly in the field.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean friendly friendly fire is jumbo shrimp. It's a damn oxymoron. Nothing friendly about it.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Yeah, they should come up with uh new term for it. Like we killed our own fucking people.
SPEAKER_00Let's let's call it what it is. You know, they want to put a candy wrapper around it, and you know, it it's not it's not that it it is it is not that. Um friendly fire is I mean, talk to someone that has lost someone because of that. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? I mean, yeah that it it it's it's it's again, it's one of those things where like I like I said, you know, it's jumbo shrimp, it's an oxygen, it's nothing really about it.
SPEAKER_01It really is. We killed our own fucking people, is really what it should be. That that should be like the acronym. We had a you know uh weak op incident, you know, and then you know that I mean it's it's ridiculous, right?
SPEAKER_00But it can be there should never be an instance where we're turning around saying, you know, our hearts go out to the fan the friends and family because of friendly fire. I'm sorry. That just lights me up right there, especially, especially being you know, ex-navy. Um I'm like, nah, I'm yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I know. I always hear that, you know, my daughter, you know, she went to Arizona State, and so at ASU, you got the whole Pat Tillman thing. Uh, there's a big Pat Tillman statue when they come running out. And you know, that was that sad story, you know. He he's like, I'm leaving the NFL to go help my brothers and sisters in this war on terror. And he gets killed by a jumbo shrimp, friendly fire, you know.
SPEAKER_00You know what I'm saying? That yeah, that's awful. It should have it should have never happened. And see, for those reasons, that that's why you got comments like this.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. You know, it's yeah, um yeah, the responsibility thing, the accountability, again, I mean it's like weird. Whenever we talk, we never know what the hell we're really gonna be talking about on any episode, but we end up landing on pretty good.
SPEAKER_02You know, that you know, I mean, this is such a serious discussion. If there is any technology out there that's gonna screw up and do friendly fire, it's AI today. Yeah. And you think of all the screw-ups that happen with ChatGPT and Claude and Gemini, where it goes, oh, I'm sorry, my bad. You know, on your stupid thing that you're doing on your computer. Now take that to the battlefield. Oh, my bad.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, I didn't know that. Uh, and then the fucking thing starts arguing with you. That's the part that really I mean, you know. I was like, well, you know, you didn't tell me, so uh blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_00I was like, what the fight. Well, I mean, everyone, everyone saw what what what happened. Uh what was that? That was in the Bay Area where they had the the robot in the restaurant.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. The friggin' hot pot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's it's doing this and it's like they're like, oh, it's dancing. I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah. Virtual slapped you upside the head. They don't have muscle. It is nothing but pistons, and I mean, it it that crap will hurt.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Oh, dude, I gotta post a video. I I mentioned earlier the Kung Fu gigantic Kung Fu robot, right? That uh on the GTC startup floor, right? I mean, this thing was doing dangerous stuff, man. I mean, uh, it was doing uh I I I don't know why they programmed it with certain violent moves, like combat moves. Well, but one of these, and it's remote controlled. It's not like the that this thing actually has any uh you know uh sense of boundary. It's a guy with a joystick. I mean, I have video of it. This guy operating this thing, and then they have like a couple of I I guess you know it's like uh Tekken, you know, you have a couple of moves that you do with the joystick, right? And then it executes you know the flying, uh flying, you know, deadly goose technique kick or something. Some like that, you know what I'm saying? And then you know it's gonna take someone out. I'm like thinking, and then you know there's some dumbass people just like cruising by with their cameras going like this, getting within slap distance of this thing. And so I was sitting there with the anaconda guys going, and then it's their fault. Yeah, has anyone gotten slapped yet? Or I mean, you know, and I'm looking at the people going, man, you guys are dumbass people. Yeah, and we're not talking the will slap. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh no, a robot slap.
SPEAKER_00Breaks your face off. Yeah. I mean, we we are talking about a Willy dynamite slap. Yeah, and then you have all these people literally within six feet of this thing.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. He's like seven feet tall, you know.
SPEAKER_02It's like Did you see this this morning on Twitter? And so Uni Tree, it's an open source robots in China. All right, they're running with kids in New York City today.
SPEAKER_01Uh kicked on somebody in the nuts?
SPEAKER_02No?
SPEAKER_01Oh god. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. I mean, your kid can just get taken out. That's okay. Oh yeah. Yeah, by that short little robot. Yeah, no, I mean, we get too enamored with stuff that's like, oh, that's funny. Oh, that's that. There was great. It's all fun until somebody gets an eye poked out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wait until one of those robots runs the kids over the rail railing over there and they fall into the Hudson River. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_02But you know what? This is how every movie starts. It's like the beginning, oh, it's friendly and it's all for the people. This thing is actually doing this to just train itself to get better at running, and then you know, a year from now, it's like taking everybody out. Yeah, yeah. Oh gosh, you know, it all starts out so hopeful, best intentions, all that BS. Yeah, and then it kills everybody. So yeah. That's why you have to have your bunker, like all the people who are behind building all this stuff. They've all got their bunkers and surrounded by 50 cals and stuff like that, you know? Just in case. You know, or what did we have to use against the Transformers? Saber rounds or something like that, I think.
SPEAKER_01Is that what that was? Saber rounds? What the hell are they?
SPEAKER_02That's what they called them. It's some invented thing. It's probably a bigger round than a 50 cal. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Maybe they were using rail guns. That's probably what you need to take these things down, you know. 50 cal, I don't know. If it's armored, how do you take it down?
SPEAKER_02I know. You might have to do like uh like on the Navy ships, you know, they have to deal with the minigun with the depleted uranium shells. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, this is the last line of defense against those incoming hypersonic missiles. And to your point, even a regular missile, it's the last line of defense because everything else failed. It may still hit the missile and stop it from hitting the ship, but the explosion is gonna happen right there next to the ship.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Any human that's on the deck is dead instantly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then not only that, I mean, think about it. It's like uh, what's that movie with Bruce Willis or whatever? It's one of those like, you know, they blow up the they blow up the gigantic asteroid, but then all the it creates a shotgun effect. Do you know what I'm saying? Because you know, anything that's like coming at you at like Mach 7, that kinetic energy is linear. It's going in a linear direction. You blow it up. That's not gonna go sideways. It's gonna it's gonna pepper through the ship and maybe even cause more cat actually increase its chance of probably hitting the ship because you don't need the whole thing to hit the ship to cause damage, right? Like catastrophic damage. I mean it was weird. Because the stuff will go right through at that speed, it'll just go right through and then hit systems across the the ship.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. You know, did any of you guys see those G.I. Joe movies? Of course.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I forgot all of them. The only thing I was the Korean dude, Snake, whatever.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, it's not like Snake Eye.
SPEAKER_00Snake Eye.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but there was the like the evil villain. I don't know if it was in the first one or the second one, but they had orbiting deals and they were not launching nuclear weapons, they were launching these tungsten rods. And to your point, it was they shot a tungsten rod at London and just took out the whole city. No radiation, no anything, just the it was the kinetic impact. Kinetic impact, yeah, was enough to do the damage.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you know, you gotta you gotta believe that they're gonna have not only can does the kinetic impact has a have an an impact, which is catastrophic, but throw some EMF in there. Because we're not just gonna take out the people, we're gonna take out your systems.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that's such a good point. You know, the electromagnetic spectrum is such a fragile thing. Yeah. Take it all for granted. We use all these different frequencies and we build solutions and we just assume it's all gonna work. But as soon as war breaks out, we are jamming all those frequencies, and none of your stuff's gonna work. And as we probably talked on the show before, that's why the Ukrainians have wires connected to their drones because the wireless doesn't work anymore because the Russians are jamming that frequency. So they have spools of wires to do it because that's the only way to make it work. Wired over wireless.
SPEAKER_01I think we're already turning the uh we're turning IoT coffee talk into a military. You know, no, yeah, but you know, your whole mention of EM EMF uh um EMP EMF EMP, yeah. They have directed, there's companies that are developing, have developed uh directed EMP uh defense. I don't know if you want to call them weapons, because they do take out they're they're designed to take out drones. The whole purpose of them is to take out drones, right?
SPEAKER_02So um it's like a direct, I don't know how the hell they do it, but remember those those guys in Oceans 11 had an electromagnetic pulse machine that they pointed at the casino to have the lights go out. Oh yeah. When they when they robbed the safe at the bottom. So you know, you can just you know, you can just get those on eBay, I think. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You all like those uh friggin' flashlights, you know, the military grade flashlights.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Just like the uh the night vision goggles that are military grade. Now you can buy them for like 20 bucks on Amazon.
SPEAKER_02Or or do you remember in Napoleon Dynamite, you know, when he's like, yeah, I was able to buy a time machine on the internet.
SPEAKER_00It's all available.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. All available. Yeah. So I mean, a lot of the so a lot of the disruption that happens uh is typically not just all the digital AI stuff. There's structural things. It's it's just that um, you know, if we go back to AI, uh you know, it it's it enables maybe certain things that uh may ha force you to rethink uh how an industry and if you call warfare an industry, which it you can argue it is, uh it'll it'll force you to rethink that to a certain degree. But um I don't know. Um it's complex, but it's also you know, what you think is revolution is not what you truly think. You know, going back to your comment about um the friendly fire, the un you know, like uh if you use AI and it's uh probabilistically killing off you know six you know, probably like thirty percent of your own people because it's making bad decisions constantly. Um you're gonna be I don't know how are you gonna win? And so you know going back to this idea of using AI to win, it to your to your point, Rob, this is so important. Organizations need to think about whether or not they're using AI to lose. Right? Because you know what I've heard uh when you look at these reasoning models, you apply these reasoning models in the field, and this is coming from practitioners, the hallucination, uh the the reliability rate actually is not 90% like they're talking about, which fucking sucks. 90% is terrible, yeah, it's it's actually about 50% in practice. And think about you're using this for logistics, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. It's hallucinating. These stuff, these bad decisions are compounding through your whole organization. What's gonna happen? Yeah, in the battlefield, you're gonna have a shit ton of you know, uh, we killed our own friggin' people incident.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. And so while that seems extreme, decision makers at normal companies need to look at their own business with this in the through the lens of, well, how would that work for the military? Yeah, and so is that what I want to do at my company? Yeah. Also, I just want to say something right now about this reasoning and reasoning models. They are not reasoning. A reasoning model means it does the one-shot answer like it always did, and then it goes back and does like three or four more, and then it looks up, and of all the one choices it made, it figures, you know, goes, Oh, this is the probably probabilistically the most likely right answer of my five answers that I thought were right. Yeah. So there's no reasoning, there's no conscious whatever. It's just doing the same thing like five or six times, and then going, it's probably the best one. Um, but you know, Dario and Sam and everybody want you to go, we've got reasoning, and we're going, you know, it's like, no, it's not.
SPEAKER_01Jensen, too. Include Jensen. Because he is the guy who's probably talking hyping things ahead of even Dario and um Sam. Yeah. You know, I mean, to be honest, uh I don't do this very often to give Sam Altman credit. He's he's has said publicly, you know, the stuff is not ready. This is experimental. I mean, probably his only uh, you know, I don't know if you want to call it um uh irresponsible. Uh actually he doesn't do a lot of stuff irresponsible in my book. But to say that uh here's a very powerful technology, experiment with it and screw around with it without it, and then find out how damaging it could be to you. Yeah, you know, that's probably the thing that's jacked up about him, the Silicon Valley, you know, break things runaway mentality. But he he's told people this stuff is just a freaking Frankenstein experiment.
SPEAKER_02You're so right. We've talked about that before here, where they come out, they go, This is experimental technology, and yet every company on the planet is full in. And I'm like, Did you not read the fine print? It's experimental. Yeah, you're and yet every ad on TV and everything you go, you know. I got I just saw Interest Elba again this morning for service now. You know, it's just like you know, it's it's it's they're all in. Every company's in, and the analyst firms are all in.
SPEAKER_01We're all racing towards the and none of them are making money. Yeah, we don't talk about stock prices, but go and I'll I'll tell everyone. Oh maybe this is historical. So hey, go and look at the stock prices of all these companies, whether it's uh you know, it's a data uh analytics company, right? Big data company, whether it's uh a consulting uh company, you know, what it whether it's uh Indian-based uh SI or a GSI. Look, where is the where is the magic? You know, any of these uh neo clouds that are just uh raising funds. The magic is in the numbers. Just look, it's it's friggin' disaster. And then we still have these guys saying this is revolution, you know, on CNBC, jumping on going, hey, well, you know, you're missing out on the revolution. Uh you know, the real the real uh AI revolution. Uh everyone's missing the point. It's like, no, you're missing the point. You go and look at the end markets, they're disastrous. Yeah, that's I mean, it's the evidence is right in front of your face, and you still have these jokers going around saying that there's an AI revolution going on just because one company is selling a shit ton of GPUs.
SPEAKER_00Uh I thought that I mean I I I I think it's beyond that though. I mean, the one company that's selling the the GPUs is I mean, come on. I mean, that's that's like me selling engines, right? Yeah, it depends on what you're going to do with it, right? Yeah at the end of the day. If you you know, yeah uh I mean it there's there's a lot of just because you can doesn't mean you should right um involved with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, don't put don't put uh uh don't put a V8 on your bicycle.
SPEAKER_00Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
SPEAKER_01You know, you know what we should rename this uh this show instead of like A I O T or Gen A I O T coffee talk, we should just call it F-A-F-O.
SPEAKER_00I told you, what is today? What is today? Today is FAFO Friday, everybody.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is, it is, you're right, you're right.
SPEAKER_00That's what this really is. And that's why every time, and I want to give a shout out to to Rat Rat because they are putting things out that people think, but they just won't say. See, you tell me on FAFO Friday that you've got this AI agent that's gonna revolutionize the world. I'm like, no, you got me fucked up. That's not what happened, all right? Yep, there it is, folks. Okay, you don't really have one. Man, you know I'm coming with these on a regular basis.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, you're a prophet, dude. You're like a freaking blown away.
SPEAKER_02You got new shirts every time. It's unbelievable. I can't even imagine what your closet looks like. You just got all those badass shirts going on forever. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Come on, the man has big ass fans. He has a house big enough for multiple big ass fans. I might be able to fit half of a big ass fan in my house.
SPEAKER_02Seven big ass fans? Yes. Oh my, I love that. I love that. Oh my god. That's incredible. That's incredible. Oh my god. Good stuff. Good stuff.
SPEAKER_00And you know what? I mean, I jumped on late, but I didn't get the chance to say it was so good to see my boy Leonard out in San out in San Jose when we were out there. Oh my god. Had a had a blast.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. And then you know what? He is for real. He he friggin' he is a co-owner, if not the owner of Alexander Steakhouse. I mean.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, he walks in and it's like if there was like a packed house, people somebody would have just said, oh, oh, Mr. Pew, uh, one moment, please. Get your ass out of here. Here, here's a coupon.
SPEAKER_00You know you know what? They they never cease to amaze me that every time I show up, it's like stuff just happens.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean we were sitting there, and and so I know that I made mention that they keep a reserve set of bottles for me in their wine room.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, it's crazy. And you know, Alexander's is uh like the friggin' place that all the Apple execs go. Like everyone in Cupertino.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that's like I remember you telling me what the wine was, but I forgot. Do you remember what the wine was? Losotros.
SPEAKER_01Losotros. Oh, dude, it's really, really good. Yeah, I thought it was like a Merle. It's Merle Merlec. It's a Malbeck. But it's a Malbec.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Alright, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um it's really nice. Yeah, and I didn't mean uh Merlot in an insulting way.
SPEAKER_00No, but but you can't blend those two. You yeah, you're not gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00But that that Malbec is so good, Rob. I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I'm gonna go to the liquor store right now. You will not find it.
SPEAKER_01No, it's very very twiggy. It's it kind has a nice balance of twiggy and super, super smooth tannins. It's like ridiculous. You know, I've never heard twiggy before.
SPEAKER_02But I'm applauding that, you know. Before people watch the original Som movie, they'd never heard the notion of, yeah, it smells like a freshly opened can of tennis balls.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, this is this you will not. I mean, when I first had it, I went on a hunt to try to get it, but it is shipped um from Argentina, Mendoza, okay, yeah, and it is an employee-owned winery, and they only ship so many uh crates per year, yeah. And Alexander's gets like like four of them. And the guy brought out Ken Kenji, shout out to Kenji. If you listen to this Kenji, you man, you my dude. Kenji brings me the box, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he brought him the box.
SPEAKER_02Oh, like the wood box?
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, man. You know, um Bill Bill is legit. Big time, big time legit. But yeah, you know, um, it is it is kind of shocking when you start to learn about wine and somebody goes, uh hmm. Okay, we have a little bit of uh wild cherry, some cassis. I think I smell a hint of bovine dump. And then you're going, what? Cow shit?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's like, oh yeah, this is characteristic of this in the most pleasant way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it smells like you know, it's like almost like you know, you become like a cow dung inspector.
SPEAKER_00They they hooked they hooked us up. They yeah, they that's awesome. That was awesome. I think I think that was Leonard. Was that your first time having those Himachi shocks?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh everything was fantastic. The salad was great. You know, the uh what was it? Uh the um risotto was amazing, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I've been there once before. Friend of mine took me there who's Apple executive.
SPEAKER_02A lot of people take risotto for granted, and that can be easily screwed up, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Easily. That's good. Yeah, no, the uh it was it was it was good. I just like like I said, I I I told Leonard, I was like, when you when you when we're in town together, I'm gonna take you to my restaurant.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, you done good. So but uh anyways, let's uh let's call it, guys. You want to take us out, Ron?
SPEAKER_02Sure. Thanks everybody for joining. Uh it was great having Pete on a little earlier, you know. Basically, we're kind of celebrating it. Great another great edge AI event that Pete put on in San Diego this week. Um, great venue. And you could see between two and three aircraft carriers from the venue, which I know is a minimal requirement for having an edge AI event. And so that was really good to start, you know. Great to have the fun nighttime event on the deck of the USS Midway. That was so cool, you know. It was bringing it flashbacks, man. I was hanging out by that F-14 Tomcat. I was just like, oh man, come on, Maverick, let's do this thing. It's time to do some of that pilot shit, Maverick.
unknownYou know?
SPEAKER_02And so, and in fact, I had to watch Top God Maverick on the plane flying home after being there because I was just like, Yes, yes, you should do it. Talk to me, goose. Oh my gosh. So it was, oh my god, much love. Great, you know, Pete is just nailing it. Yeah, it's just what an amazing event, great organization. Um, anyway, lots of edge AI we're talking about, lots of AI going rogue in military this week. Um, you know, not that it happened. We're just talking about that what could happen. Um, everybody, there were some, there were exhibitors there at the event that are all in with the military, actually. And so we are definitely seeing that uh that trend of more and more startups and big companies pointing their innovation at the at DOD. So that's an interesting trend that we're certainly seeing. Um and you know what? I jumbo shrimp, I think, is the real word of the day. Uh jumbo shrimp.
SPEAKER_01On that phase, yeah.
SPEAKER_02On that Friday. Fafo Friday. That's right. Fafo Friday. Exactly. So thanks so much for joining us. And uh, you know, hopefully we'll be back next week if we're not attacked by friendly fire from some rogue AI thing. You know, kung fu, kids. Exactly. Exactly. And also, stay away from Houston Intercontinental Airport because I had to wait over three hours to get through the TSA line on Monday to fly to San Diego. Um and I know Leonard, you had a little struggle early morning at San Diego Airport, no?
SPEAKER_00Um I did in at Austin Airport.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's not to say that other people didn't, but I didn't.
SPEAKER_02You didn't, yes. Oh, yes, because they shut down TSA Pre, they shut down Clear, and I was wrapped around going down driveways, you know, where cars are supposed to be. I mean, it looked like the whole city of Houston was at the airport, and I can only imagine if it was summertime and we're like burning alive out there, or if it was pouring down rain, because you're just outside for hours, three, four hours. Nope. Nope. So let's get this fixed, Congress. Now get on it.
SPEAKER_00Or I'm or you're fired.
unknownFired.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna tell you right now, you think I'm you think I'm dealing with it.
SPEAKER_01All right, see you guys.
SPEAKER_02See you guys next week. Adios, I'm gonna go.
