IoT Coffee Talk
Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk where we talk tech and all things related to the Internet of Things. This program was started by a group of friends who just happen to be thought leaders, experienced practitioners and business leaders in the technology and communications services industries and more. This pod will feature weekly recordings of our casual conversations on the tech topics of the day with the hopes of delivering engaging and thought-provoking insights to our audience. We hope you enjoy program.
IoT Coffee Talk
#307 Fly Me to The Moon
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You know, I got really bad flu poisoning or uh stomach flu at the beginning of the week. And my nervous system is not back. Wow.
SPEAKER_00I can't play guitar with that sounded pretty bad. Isn't it your normal state? Leonard? Sorry.
SPEAKER_04Uh some are would argue yes. I can't talk.
SPEAKER_05I was on a talk. You can't play. You just but you just knocked it out of the park, dude.
SPEAKER_00Um so Rob's got a new haircut. I haven't been here for a while.
SPEAKER_05I got a haircut, yeah. You look great, dude. Thanks. Your camera. Yeah. Marvelous marvelous.
SPEAKER_00It's actually, yeah, it looks like you got a 4K camera or something like that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. I'm just on a different laptop. Um sitting outside on the deck. Yeah, it's amazing what light can do. Light is amazing. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So hey everyone, welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. Remember, we're here just for fun. Take us seriously at your own peril. And we highly encourage you that you don't and that you're just here to have some fun. And we're gonna blow off steam because that's what we do at the end of the week.
SPEAKER_03Yes. There you go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. If your eyes and ears could only see what we've seen through the week. Stoping. Stopping. I mean, reminds me of that Rutger Rutger Hauer uh scene where you know where he uh Yeah uh Tears in the Rain. Tears in the Rain.
SPEAKER_03Tears in the Rain. That was such a great movie. That was good. That was good. So good. Blade Runner.
SPEAKER_05That was really good. For some reason, when I think of Rutger Hauer, this is a really obscure movie reference. Do you remember there's a movie called Nighthawks or something with Sylvester Stallone and Rutger Hauer? Yeah. Rutger Howard's the bad guy. I remember before he would kill a person, he'd go, You go to a better life. Anyway, I don't know why that popped my head.
SPEAKER_00A lot of things that possibly rights nowadays. He's probably right.
SPEAKER_04Well, you know, it's it's interesting. You know how much things have changed because you know I made this post recently uh about uh AI generated app slot or vibe-coded app slop. And it's going viral, dude. It's like crazy and totally unexpected, because I never intended to that the algorithm would pick it up and just take it into the stratosphere. Um but it really just it makes you appreciate those days where of um blockbusters where uh you know content creators really had to struggle to um make it. There was a lot of friction, right? And as consumers, we didn't have so much stuff to focus on, and so we could uh kind of live our lives, right? Not be so distracted by content, constant stream of content, and everyone just sticking stuff in your face. So you know, this whole slot problem is actually an outcome of democratization of uh tools that people like this is this is a result.
SPEAKER_03This you know yeah, well, yeah, I mean YouTube, you could argue the past 10 years, right? We used to have three channels on our TV, and now we have YouTube, you can watch it all day long. Right, yeah, not possible to consume all the content also. Yeah, but you know, have their own talk show about IoTs, you know.
SPEAKER_05So are you guys saying that the more we democratize things and make level the playing field, it will create more slop.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Well the the problem is you level the playing field, but the level's down here. It's really down here. Okay. That's the level. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's technology is just an accelerator of exposing what humans can do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, everything becomes uh uh an output of compu convenience, right? It's convenient now to produce content from the middle of uh rallies or whatever, you know, wherever Pete is, right? Pancake house. Yeah, pancake house. You can just like bring in make content and uh shit to the entire universe, right?
SPEAKER_05No, the slop. I you know, I'm having flashbacks now. So in the being a writer in the publishing industry, you know, there used to be these gatekeepers, these handful of agents companies in New York City that you had to go through to get an agent to write a book for one of the big publishing houses in New York. And that was the only way, and you're gonna get on the shelves at Barnes and Noble's and Borders, and then print on demand came out, and then Amazon came out, and the Kindle, and now all of a sudden everybody can publish, and everybody can be an author, which sounds great, but we get a lot of slop. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_03By the way, let me do a little let me do a little public example because a friend of mine actually just wrote a public published book that's actually really good. It's called The Vectorist, and uh and he's a self-published author. I think it's self-published, but it's a really good kind of near future science fiction book about the specs of AI and uh and uh sort of profiling populations and manipulating populations. Um it's called The Vectorist, and uh just wrote it. So even though I I know we're talking about slop, so it's probably not a good time to pitch it, but it's a good book to it's a good book to read. It's really actually quite good. It's on Amazon, actually.
SPEAKER_05So that's awesome. That's great.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, in that moment, though, as you said, like anyone can do it, but that also enables people to do things that who otherwise wouldn't have been able to go through all the dudes to get up there, right? So in that sense, it does enable uh flowers to bloom.
SPEAKER_04Some of them are weeds and some of them are roses, but um yeah, and so I think the counterpoint to that argument is that uh it it expands the field of weeds versus the roses, and you know, I think the roses would have ri risen to the top anyway, right? You know, roses are still roses, yeah. The only yeah, roses are still roses, and uh uh you know there is a degree of economic benefit, it can expose some roses by lowering the cost of entry to a certain degree, but I don't think it's so dramatic um that someone who is talented uh and is a rose couldn't rise without that um you know, let's say more equalized um you know platform, equalizing platform or democratizing platform. I I I I think that's just that because you know all this democratization stuff has not turned out just like no one can figure out all any of this abundance bullshit, right? It's the same thing, it was just some academic concept that it is sold as something that is positive but doesn't necessarily have a positive outcome at the end of the day, right?
SPEAKER_00But it's the way we handled it because the the commoditization or the democratization platform makes sense, but then the consequence, as you said, is the sheer volume exploded. So how do you sort the volume? And the sorting of the the sorting of the volume mechanism are highly influenced a ball now and and biased. So this is the the the problem is in the is in the yeah, again, the triage. The triage mechanisms are not necessarily controlled by the value of the content, but they can be controlled by you know in some regimes it's by the government, in others it's by advertisers, or it's by power. So that's the problem, it's the triage mechanism.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, yeah. And then there's well, it can also get um uh there is the cost of noise. So at some point, yeah, when you're talking about triage or just basically curating and uh clearing the field, that that that would be the prime you know filter or criteria.
SPEAKER_03But now we have the algorithm like dimensional, the algorithm looks for keywords like if by putting AI slot and to like everyone see it instantly because it's different on the back of the day when you had public results and over. Yeah. Maybe it's sort of a similar thing because back then I just parns a mobile word would go to the feedback for a lot of people. Now it's all uh all the way to the posting individual.
SPEAKER_04Hey, you know, you're sounding worse and worse for some reason. You sounded really great, now you sound like mumbling.
SPEAKER_00You need you need your pen. Yeah, I think it's a Bluetooth that is getting. Bluetooth is getting a little crunchy.
SPEAKER_04I love how you're trying you're leaning in closer to your laptop.
SPEAKER_05Some other partners like that's gonna help. This is gonna help. Get the backup AirPod stats.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05What the hell happened? Apple failed this week. When in doubt, when in doubt, use wired headphones. Oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00A good old microphone.
SPEAKER_04Or take off the take off the noise cancellation. Take off the the adaptive noise cancellation.
SPEAKER_00Do you remember what this is, Pete? Do you remember that?
SPEAKER_04What is that?
SPEAKER_00It's a cable, it's a cable, it connects one thing to another.
SPEAKER_04Well, you know, this is the interesting thing. Sometimes the AI can fail at the endpoint, and then you you just have to uh have it at the nearest edge uh infrastructure, which might be your laptop. Just let your laptop handle the the AI part.
SPEAKER_05It reminds me when Dr. Evil said, freedom failed, Mr. Powers.
SPEAKER_00Uh but yeah, maybe that helps. That might be another thing that was right, Rob.
SPEAKER_05We're not so different, you and I. You're not so different.
SPEAKER_00You're getting you're getting us very philosophical uh uh valuable quotes, Rob, which are very irrelevant nowadays to cultural quotes. You have the cultural quotes.
SPEAKER_05I didn't even know I was being cultural. Doesn't it seem like every well, certainly James Bond, but a lot of movies, the villain towards the end, they're facing off with the good guy, and they're like, Well, you know, we're not so different. And there's that kind of shtick. I don't know. I don't know. Wow. Okay, so we have a we have a spaceship heading towards yeah, yes, fine.
SPEAKER_00Finally, I was so excited. Uh you know, one of one of my very I I don't have a lot of childhood memory, but one of the very few I have was actually the landing of the moon. I remember watching that on TV with my father on a giant black and white tube TV. That's awesome. I remember that. It's one of the very few images I have before 10 years old.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00So I was super super excited. I watched it the the rocket go out. That's so cool.
SPEAKER_05I heard there was some stat that said anyone who is under 53 years old has never seen anybody on the moon or anything like it, you know. Like or did we?
SPEAKER_03Or did we? Or did well if Bill Q was on, he would tell you this. We're going for the moon to the moon for the first time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. Well, yeah, you're right. By the way, it's fake again. You what we saw from NASA was just you know an AI generated launch of a rocket. So it didn't happen, including all those posts on TikTok. Well, you saw have you seen those posts from uh from an airplane? Somebody the Yeah, that's cool. That was beautiful.
SPEAKER_05That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a few like that floating around.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like planes flying over Florida and they got to check it out. And that's pretty neat. That's cool. I remember seeing stuff like with a space shuttle like that before. Yeah, that's cool stuff.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And it's funny that they uh you know, um when they're uh broadcasting the event, they're using a digital twin visual digital twin. Yeah, when it gets right. So uh digital twins are gonna be hot again because I mean this is the classic case, right? Yeah, it's back very much digital twins came from.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but the the very interesting thing about this uh this chart from a commercial airplane is you get a much better sense of speed because it comes down from up, you know, because usually you see them from the ground going up, and after a while you look slow. But here you was you would really see it's slow, slow, fast, fast, fast, fast, fast. Sorry. It's a very fascinating shot from the top. I've never seen anything like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, really cool. Yeah, reminds me of um there was a drone shot in that um Apple Vision Pro um uh immersive movie uh that has you know basically um uh it's uh like off of an aircraft carrier, right? And they have a flyby of F-18s that's like mid-air, which you never get to really see, right? I mean the thing is like going mock right past uh a drone, and it's a trick, especially in immersive media format, you know? But um, yeah, they buzzed the tower. Yeah, basically. Well, they buzzed a drone. They buzzed the drone like uh Kin Voc's house. We got we got the buzzer of the helicopters. Jeez, oh man.
SPEAKER_05Uh I'm sure that wasn't coordinated at all. That just kind of randomly happened. Yeah, it just happened. It just happened. It just happened. Things just happened, man. Wow.
SPEAKER_04Wow. But you know, what I thought was really interesting is you're watching the and listening to the chatter between um Orion, right? The Orion um ship and uh was it Houston? Or who were they communicating with communicating with you in Cape Canaveral? Yeah, there were always um there was always uh a person in the middle checking the actual sensor reading to make sure that whatever telemetry was being sent back was accurate and what um you know the command center was seeing was the same as what was on the physical twin. He's saying there was a human loop or after all these years, and it's it's it's supposed to be autonomous. That was an autonomous launch, right? They weren't screwing around with anything. It was like hands off.
SPEAKER_03That was there's no guy, there weren't guys with like white short clean shirts and skin piles there, like thumb in the glasses, like throwing out the bathrooms and used them up and uh you're you're really bad, dude.
SPEAKER_04That's what yeah, it's like that was already the Apple is failing today, big time.
SPEAKER_00But that was already the the case for Apollo missions, uh Leonard. There was uh the we only use, I mean manual landing was used on Apollo 11 because they had a glitch at the end, but everything was automatic. There was the the pirates were not doing anything except entering the program number.
SPEAKER_04Wow, but then you know think about how amazing that is then. And so it begs the question why didn't why the hell didn't we just like reconstruct a Saturn rocket and then save ourselves?
SPEAKER_00There's a very good there's a very good uh there's a very good uh YouTube video from a guy, I don't remember his name, it's from Cisco, but uh Light Us ahead that explained how the Apollo guidance computer worked and how it was designed to actually fail and recover correctly so that you wouldn't put so it's a great great article, I always recommend it because there are design principles that were highlighted that are still implemented in very high fault tolerance systems nowadays, but they're not common software engineering practice. But if you apply those, you get rocket solid things that works, whatever the condition.
SPEAKER_04This is perfect. Bill is on now. We're talking about going to the moon, dude.
SPEAKER_00He's gonna shut us.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He says it it's all AI. It's all AI.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, I'm I'm gonna leave that one alone, man. I mean, you know, you wanna you wanna you wanna kick off Fafo Friday, so here we go.
SPEAKER_05Here we go. I figured Bill, I figured you were there on the beach in Titusville, like going USI, USI.
SPEAKER_01Did you see me there? I was I was hanging. You were there? Uh yeah. I mean, uh I don't know. I don't know about all that, man. I mean, look, there's you know, uh there's there's just there's just 50 uh 50 on one hand, 50 on the other side. I mean we did not have the flippant infrastructure to do that.
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, well, I don't know. We didn't. I guess we'll see. We'll see. Maybe this was I mean, but you know, it is weird.
SPEAKER_05So which part do we not have the infrastructure for? Or even back in the day. What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, today we we do we do have the infrastructure for it. Yeah. But when you're talking about when you're talking about sending transmissions from the moon back out, no.
SPEAKER_05Just aim it. You aim your your Yagi antenna and you aim it at the earth.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know what? I forgot about Yagi antennas. I forgot about all of that. I mean, and the range associated with it. I mean, it's it's yeah, define physics. That's what we were doing.
SPEAKER_00Well, you have a lot of sorry, I'm sorry, Bill, but it's very well documented. I can point you to the resource on that. It's been actually recreated on the ground.
SPEAKER_01It actually the Bible is very well documented as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, come on.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I mean, I'm just saying, it there's unless you were there and you actually did it, I'm sorry. It's suspect as hell.
SPEAKER_00I know people probably I know people that rebuild it, they'd expect explain how it works, how it compensates for the Doppler effect in a transmission. It's a very great example of microwave communication at a very high level. I mean, it is scientifically proven.
SPEAKER_01At the fucking highest level, man, you're talking about the moon or Voyager one in interstellar space.
SPEAKER_00Go on YouTube, search for search for CuriousMark. There's a whole section on the GGT and the communication between the moon and everything. There's the documentation, the diagrams, the physics, everything's documented. It worked. And it can be recreated. There you go. Uh, you know, they are. It was there. It just the the difference was it cost millions and millions and millions to build it. Yeah. Right now you have it for 700 bucks in your cell phone. But it there is nothing different in the physics. I mean, the same as going to uh going to the moon is gravity is the same, newton loads are the same, the math is the same, the computers just computed much faster.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, we could debate, we could debate this you know to the to the nth degree. Um that's why we have this show.
SPEAKER_05And this is what makes people want to watch the show, is because shit like this, man.
SPEAKER_01I was I was I mean, I was in the I was in the Navy for six years, I worked on telecom equipment, I saw so much stuff from I mean, with respect to how P3s were doing the things that they were doing in terms of identifying munitions and in underwater and all of that stuff. The the science is the science, man. But the fact physics is physics, and to go from the moon down to earth with the video and the no, I'm I wouldn't know so for me.
SPEAKER_04There's two things that uh there are two things. One thing that makes me believe that we went to the moon is Tang.
SPEAKER_05Well, there you go, folks.
SPEAKER_04Okay, that's that's how we know. One uh okay, the the thing that makes me believe that we didn't go to the moon was that flag when they planted the flag and it had Has that little bar thing across it, and then it's all crumpled and pointing in a weird direction. Either that flag was made out of tinfoil, it just I don't know. Uh that's the part that looks like a Hollywood production.
SPEAKER_00But there's no wind, and there's not enough gravity to keep it. So of course it's a piece of clothes with a frame on it. It has gravity.
SPEAKER_04No, no, no, but it has gravity. There is gravity.
SPEAKER_00Very little, very like gravity. There's no wind, but there's no wind. There's no atmosphere. Do you understand that? There's no atmosphere. You cannot.
SPEAKER_04No, no, no. I don't expect it to be flapping or anything like that.
SPEAKER_05I just expect it to be like you're getting your boats on Flappy Bird to try to make the wind.
SPEAKER_00It's also documented. It's a piece of cloth, and there's a frame behind to keep it straight. Otherwise, it wouldn't be.
SPEAKER_04Hey man, I have easy criteria, dude. It boils down to tang and the flag. So, you know, I mean, I'm not making a big argument here. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05And so they had to do an emergency repair of the toilet on the spaceship on this flight here.
SPEAKER_04Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's that one thing that didn't happen. They went to the moon.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_00Before.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah, that fake time. Yeah, they didn't have it then. Yeah, but now we got a toilet. It broke.
SPEAKER_00Did they call Elon and ask him to send a plumber?
SPEAKER_05They said a plumber. I heard that the the astronaut, I forgot what the woman's name is, and then she was talking to someone in Houston, and they walked her through. It was just like the movie Apollo 13. Gary Sinise, they're breaking out stuff, you know. They're trying to figure out how to put a square peg in a round hall. They're like, all right, give me the Houston, we're gonna need a procedure for this toilet in the next I'd say 10 minutes, or we're gonna die. We're working on it. Gary Sinise is working on it. Just hang on there, Forrest. It's fine. You know? So uh but they worked the they worked the they worked the problem and the toilet.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. It's much less glamorous than the Pro 13.
SPEAKER_04Well, I hope they um yeah, I hope they took a ball of air freshener up there. Can you imagine if there was an accident and then you're you had to be stuck in that thing for 10 days? Can you imagine if you were either like a break on a bus, you know?
SPEAKER_03It's like taking a bus from uh you know San Francisco to Seattle 12 hours. Sitting next to the mode.
SPEAKER_05Can you imagine if you were just the slightest bit claustrophobic?
SPEAKER_04Ah, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like when they're showing how small that capsule is that they're in, and they're just that's part of the that's the astronaut's betting and training process. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because apparently it's the same size as the Apollo caps too. It's not much bigger, it's just organized differently, and there are four of them instead of three. So it's crazy. But there's there's a very smart user.speace. I saw a couple of you know um things about it. You know, and the actually the the exercise mechan system is actually extremely close to the toilet. So you can be in the toilets and somebody exercises just like a few inches from you. So it's very cozy.
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh. Yeah, well, you know, it's only 10 days.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05No wonder.
SPEAKER_03By the way, this porn beef is very good.
SPEAKER_05So the what?
SPEAKER_03Porn beef.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yummy. Yeah, why don't you go ahead and write a Yelp review live?
SPEAKER_03Five stars, man.
SPEAKER_05It kind of looks like In and Out.
SPEAKER_00It looks like In N Out, right? That's true, but it's not.
SPEAKER_05It's Uncle John's breakfast whatever pancake house. Pancake House, pancake house.
SPEAKER_00Approved by Pete.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. There you go. San Jose, baby.
SPEAKER_00Hey guys, I have to bounce today.
SPEAKER_05So okay. All right. Good seeing you anyway.
SPEAKER_00See you again.
SPEAKER_05All right. Yeah. Bounce. So uh I saw saw a message from a friend of mine up in Seattle who got laid off in the Oracle layoffs. Oh, yeah. That was a big one. That was a big one. That was a big one. That's a lot of people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna say 30,000 total. I don't know.
SPEAKER_0420 and 30. Some some it did. They come out with a definitive number. They're gonna have to disclose that anyway. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's a rolling number. It's a rolling number.
SPEAKER_04You know, did some layoffs earlier. Yeah, and it's funny that all these uh people now uh writing articles about how they were right about how AI is gonna take everyone's jobs, and using this as an example. And on the at the same on the same hand, Qualcomm's hiring. Oh, yeah, that's right. They're into AI, and we're all moving. That's not killing off jobs. So, hey everyone, welcome. Come to San Diego. We're hiring.
SPEAKER_03Weather's better.
SPEAKER_04Shit. So all these companies moved to Texas and then they lay everyone off. It's like, hey, why don't you uh you know why don't you relocate to uh the Lone Star State and then we'll lay our ass off?
SPEAKER_05It just wasn't the layoffs we thought it was gonna be. And this is just step one, you know, this this isn't even the same thing as the AI taking your job thing. This is the handful of tech companies that are trying to build the data centers, yeah, and they need extra cash, yeah. Uh to so they can pay Jensen. And so they're like, and so they're like, where are we? Does anyone have 150 billion laying around? No, is there a way we can come up with that? Oh wait, what if we just lay off like 20,000 employees or something? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, you made that post, right? I mean, uh about um what do you call it, the open AI um fundraise, right? It's like 120 billion. Yeah, and you know, uh who are the big uh who are the big investors? Industries and Horowitz Horowitz, right? Who can't afford to let let this thing collapse?
SPEAKER_05Um you have SoftBank, you have Microsoft, yeah, a bunch of others, you know, you know, and and did you see individual th individual investors popped in three billion?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I read something about that. It was the first time they take in money from individuals. So what does it all mean? Are we getting close to the end? Are we would do we believe this is awesome? Do we believe this is the last gasp of I mean, gosh, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04This is this is what I'm starting to see. Um a lot of the applications that are valuable. So if you look at anthropic and even Mistral, I had a chance to talk to uh a gentleman from Mistral when I was at um where was I? GTC. Yeah. A lot of the work where they're generating revenue is um essentially uh a scientific discovery, right? The discovery process. And guess what that is? Those applications are largely traditional supercomputing applications, they're money losers, right, for the end market. You don't make money, it's like cost center stuff. This is not revenue stuff. And also, when you uh and so it's just like having a better or a state or you're about to buy your first property, this is I was about to just I just love the title for Rick Rick's deal.
SPEAKER_05It's already over.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I I saw that. That was pretty good. I mean, you know, it's like Ben Ben Affleck, he knows he knows more about AI than these tech bros do. Uh, it's funny. It's like I guess you have to get into the entertainment business to understand tech. But you know, I mean, uh the and this is something actually when I had Dylan Patel on my podcast, we talked, I I told him, dude, isn't this just this is just AI supercomputing? This is supercomputing. He goes, Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, it's a shit business. It's like, yes, it's a shit business.
SPEAKER_05It is supercomputing, you're right. Yeah, it's like because Jensen shows the example. Do you remember a couple summers ago we were or whatever with the Lenovo thing in Bellevue? Yeah. And Jensen's there, and he did the demonstration, which not everyone's seen. Because a lot of people are like, What is the magic? And so he showed on one screen this complicated problem being solved with AI using Intel CPUs, and you saw it going really slowly. And then on the other screen he goes, and here's the same problem with our GPUs, and it's like, you know, and it's like 10,000 times faster.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but it's no, but it's it's different, right? Because you know, they use uh 64, uh, you know, they use FP64 for a lot of these larger mathematical problems, but then the discovery process is assisted by generative AI, right? Like large language models that can do different types of uh analysis and and look at data sets and treat it in a different way, but it's not necessarily doing that core calculation. I mean, you still these um supercomputers, traditional uh conventional supercomputers are still being uh built out, right? That doesn't mean that you know the Grace uh Grace Um Hopper or the Grace Blackwell can't do this kind of stuff because they do support uh F you know FP64 and also you know CUDA. CUDA provides that flexibility, but uh it it doesn't mean that these systems that are now uh you know that NVIDIA has been producing for the last three years are the best for everything, right? We're finding that out now because we're getting off roadmap. It's no longer just one system that does everything because of CUDA. Now you have uh, you know, uh the the whole what a PTX, you know, Groc3, PTX, you have like frag and Vera, uh CPU rack, all these other systems that are coming into the picture that are fit for purpose for certain parts of uh the whole now uh future AI infrastructure. So uh, you know, yeah, it's it things are gonna be really different this year, but it all boils down to supercomputing, and there's not a huge market for it. And then the other thing, what the other thing that this shit is good for is like code generation, but it's not it's cogeneration, it it's not complete software um development.
SPEAKER_05This is my favorite meme now, from now on.
SPEAKER_04It's already over, it's already over.
SPEAKER_05Who do you gonna trust? I'm going with Rick.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think and you know what? You know what's really weird is being a musician gives you a lot of insight into a lot of things. Um I mean, it really does. It's like golf.
SPEAKER_05Golf is like real simple explanation. He said, This is just like when Napster and Pro Tools came out and how it devastated the entire music industry, and the music industry has never recovered. And he's like, it's the same thing. He goes, Let me show you. And he, you know, I mean, I'm not saying that he can't be wrong, but he put together a simple analogy. This new tech came, it was supposed to make things better, it destroyed the music industry, this AI thing. Wait a second, I just downloaded on my Mac and now I'm doing all this stuff. And he's like, the hardware people are gonna be okay for a while, but all these LLMs that are all there, there's like thousands of them free LLMs to download. Those guys aren't making any money, and then the biggest players are only get they're just the only money they have is coming from VCs.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, who knows?
SPEAKER_05Who knows?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, I think it's like Napster, baby. But see, that's the interesting thing. Mistral and Anthropic, what they're doing is um they're engineering application-specific um AI um applications, right? These aren't the they're calling them models, but when you look under the hood, it's just um you know uh you know, logic plus uh the model. So the models aren't I think the models are hitting a wall, they're not getting better. What now they're doing is they're creating these harnesses, right? Guardrails, workflows, blah, blah, blah, these agentic frameworks, and building it, building them specific for particular supercomputing applications, if you you know, in drug discovery or other applications. So it the I think we're past the point where the uh the um models are getting that much better. They're probably gonna settle at 95%, and then that's it.
SPEAKER_03I would say though, that I think there's another metric. And actually, uh Lati gave this keynote last week from San Diego and he talked about the unleashing of models. And there's a metric around quality and size. So basically, the models are getting smaller and the quality is going up. So it's sort of like a quality per billion parameters. Yeah. That's an interesting metric because if we look at it since 2023, so it's been almost like a 10x year over year, improvement in models based on size. So we're gonna see models go smaller, which means they can run on less expensive hardware, and the quality is going up. So I think that's an interesting metric. I think the big world model foundation or frontier models, I think they're hitting an assympto, you know, with nuclear power. But the real action is like how efficient, how how how much better can the model get with a smaller size? It's almost like tops per lot, you know, tops per watt, it's almost like quality per billion parameters.
SPEAKER_04Which is probably why Qualcomm's hiring everyone else is like laying people off because the other, you know, the large world model crap is capital intensive, there's no return, and all the all the all the value is going to be created across, you know, edge applications, app actual applications. Right.
SPEAKER_03And and yeah, no, that's that's the efficiency. That's like everything gets commercialized. Everything that gets commercialized in tech gets gets cost reduced and power reduced. Right. And so then it gets commercialized. And I think we're seeing that with AI. We start with these frontier models that are nuclear power. Yeah, it's like it's like the steam engine, you know, it's okay, it works, but it's hardly inefficient. Now we're getting into the era of actually efficiency and commercialization, and actually real return on investment. Yeah, and that's that's kind of people.
SPEAKER_04That no, and and that is uh yeah, I I I want to definitely watch that presentation.
SPEAKER_05You know what, Pete? I think your good friend Steve Martin said it perfectly. It could be the new tagline. Let's get small.
SPEAKER_03There you go. Let's get small. I remember that one.
SPEAKER_05You don't well, you were you weren't born yet in the 70s, so that was a 70s then. Yes. You know when you used to be. I was born in the 70s, but I didn't watch the if you wanted to listen to a stand-up comedian, you bought a record album.
SPEAKER_04That's right. Oh, yeah. Like Raw. Wasn't Raw a record album? Eddie Murphy's.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I remember Eddie Murphy Raw. Yeah, that was that was years later. We had Watman's by then. Come on, man.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, yeah. No, back in the day, if you wanted to listen to Steve, you had to buy his vinyl record in your house and educated too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, let's get small. That was a famous routine at this time. But yeah, no, it's true. Efficiency is the frontier. And it's like anytime you try to commercialize any tech, the first thing you do, like when you get a piece of hardware, is like, how do I cost produce the bomb? Right? Like, okay, I got it working, but now how do I take 30% out of the bomb? Right. And I think just the same analogy here they are. It's like, how do I take a bunch of money out of the bomb or cost out of the bomb so that I can actually think it's so that's affecting the model, the model research right now is like a little more specifically.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's right. That's right. Not all of us got to see Steve Martin at Madison Square Garden or at the Hollywood Bowl. And so we had to get small and watch it, listen to it on vinyl. And the exact same thing's happening with Qualcomm. We're gonna get small and we're gonna get edge AI, and all roads lead to uh San Diego, apparently. Ah, well, you know, the they are hiring.
SPEAKER_04I I don't know. I mean, no, it it's telling though, in a way, right? And and um, you know, uh the in the developer community is going to yeah, probably gravitate around some of these agentic frameworks, some of the but you know, there's it there's going to be a gravitation toward safe because when I was at RSAC, man, oh Jesus Christ, I asked one of the speakers, so what do you think about open open cloud? And he goes, um uh that's it's terrifying. You know, open cloud.
SPEAKER_03Open cloud is Napster is the Napster of OpenCloud.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it actually is the it's the Napster. It's gonna use uh crypto to basically uh rip off everybody.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. Um yeah, no, safety security, that's gonna there's like efficiency is one area in frontier, safety security is another frontier. Yeah, and the safety and security is gonna come from the commercial market, they're gonna require it. It's not gonna be a robot, it's gonna be a commercial requirement. So as Walmart and McDonald's and Lockheed would put out the RFP or AI, they're gonna do requirements around safety and security, like the tech companies are gonna have transparency.
SPEAKER_04I think it's gonna be an active item on an R RFP. It's not gonna just be a bullet point that they stick at the bottom of the thing. Right, right, right, yeah. Uh it's uh because you know, like Luca Rossi, the he's the EVP of um uh Lenovo's device group, right? Uh client device group, and he he published this thing, and he was wondering okay, when's like security uh no longer gonna be a cost center and start to become a growth enabler? And uh I'm about to just uh you know post it's it's never a growth enabler. It it's essential to doing business, right? Going forward.
SPEAKER_03When um you know you wouldn't build a house without a front door that locked.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, without it, you can't you can't make any money, you can't do anything, you can't trust anything.
SPEAKER_03So you're screwed. So you need security. That's gonna be that's definitely an expense here. Now that people so now the steam engine is like wilting now that we put a bunch of trail in the burner and starting to move down the tracks, and everyone's ooh and ah about those you know, iron course. Now we're like, okay, well, how do we stop this thing? What do the brakes look like? How do we stop it from exploding? Like, oh, brakes? What do we need brakes? Yeah, what do we need? So, yeah, that now we're under the next stage of like getting the stuff to actually be before this.
SPEAKER_04I mean, think about it, these things used to blow up. Come on. I mean, that's why we have safety, security, and then there has to be investment in it.
SPEAKER_05It's like Kate, someone had to invent the word brakes. Like, right, there wasn't brakes before that. I mean before that, you wrote you had broken horses and you pulled back on the reins, and that's that's the only thing that I had before trains in the car. Right, rain it in.
SPEAKER_03You gotta rein it in, right?
SPEAKER_05Rain it in. There you go. Wow, wow. Wow, frontier guy right here, Pete Bernard.
SPEAKER_03Right there you go. Yeah, yeah, I know a lot about horses, yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's right. Well, I think maybe rain came first. Did rain can uh come first or didn't rains?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the horse uh yeah, that's how you stopped your horse, right? Yeah, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_04I just oh okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, come on, remember when you were a kid and you learned how to do barrel racing and horses. Remember that?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so you know about that. Oh, totally. I used to do that all the time. Yeah, running around in a clown suit, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Right, right.
SPEAKER_04I'm just trying to figure out what came first, the the actual rain, you know, the uh forces or the the word for us for something else in the world.
SPEAKER_03Well, then also there's a term rain, which is like a king reigns over a kingdom, you know, which is a case of the case. Yeah, control. Yeah, see control, rain. You know, so I'm sure someone can look this up. You can ask Chat GPT and use that use that frontier model for good purpose by asking Chat GPT. Where's the etymology of the word rain?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yes. I'm gonna ask it ten different times and see if I get the same answer each time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, what I heard is actually if you Ask it in four different languages, you do get four different answers.
SPEAKER_05Love it. Love it. It's all BS, but everybody's all in. They're all in, man. It's experimental. Don't believe anything, but we're all in.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But you know, what's so dangerous right now is uh people who are experimenting with this stuff. If your your graph gets leaked out there by a cyber um cyber uh threat actor and then put in a dark web, you're you're screwed. And so if they create this uber graph, kind of like uh, you know, they convert the dark web into a a dark graph. Um and it is happening, by the way. Um, it's happening, which should scare the living crap out of everyone. It's already over. Um, it's already over. Yeah, it's already over. I I you know this the the thing is this sounds like sci-fi. What I'm talking about sounds like it's science fiction. It's already over. That's the part. The abundance stuff is sci-fi. You you know, you're just making shit up. What uh what I'm talking about right now, this is like happening. It's reality that we all need to figure out how are we gonna protect ourselves from this stuff.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna give you a few choices, Leonard. Yeah. The Matrix. Do you want Mad Max? Or do you want Logan's run? Those are your three choices.
SPEAKER_04No, you know what? I think it's gonna turn into Mad Max for uh for a while. I mean, it's just we're not gonna be in a desert or you know, like an Australian desert, you know, running around in, you know, like um these jacked up cars.
SPEAKER_03Armored vehicles. Yeah, armored vehicles. Actually, we do have our armored vehicles now, right? Don't we? Yeah, we have our flat black Land Rover defenders. I was with my uncle the other day, Texas a little while ago, and we were walking, and he's now 93. We walk past this big Land Rover defender, and he's like, what are they defended exactly? Uh who advises things. What is what is being defended by the Land Rover defender? So, yeah, we're already here with our armored vehicles.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, and then the you know, the the the thing is is what the uh income equal inequality around the world is is going to fuel it, right? Because you know, you have a few trillionaires and everyone's gonna try to take their stuff, basically. And so the vast majority of population of the earth you're gonna turn into renegades using these tools to basically rip off anyone who has um stuff, you know. I mean I mean, the they're getting laid off because of AI. I mean, what do you think is gonna happen? It has an impact on society.
SPEAKER_03Is uh you know, come on, come on, once the data centers suck all the power from the public grid, and then the folks have to like figure out their own power supplies, and of course the one percent will have their own high movement power supplies on site, yeah and the rest of us will have to you know sprout some power supplies, and that'll be like a new ballad.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah. I think even the some of the abundance people are now saying, well, before we get to abundance, we're probably gonna have I don't know, five, ten, fifteen years of we'll rough, a little short-term, short-term pain, short-term pain. It's been transitory, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then by then the population or so. Yeah, just a generation or so. Yeah. And then we'll have massive depopulation.
SPEAKER_05That's how it's gonna work itself out. Massive depopulation, right?
SPEAKER_03And there's more for everyone else that's left.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I don't know. I tell you, you know, like you know, the weird thing is that the AI thing's happening. Those of us who are in this AI analyst world, we are kind of on board with that whole motion, that whole thing, because our customers that we work with are all in with this stuff, and so we're kind of with them. And at the same time, our customers are laying off our friends, and we're seeing this happen, and you and and we don't necessarily believe that this all leads to some happy ending on the other side of the rainbow. We're because we are all Rick Biotto kind of musician guys, yeah. Okay, maybe you two guys more than me. I wish I was as cool as you guys, and it's material. When I when when we like when you lay off employees, it destroys families, it breaks apart, it really wrecks families, it makes an uncertain future for the children of those families, and it's devastating. And business people are, I don't want to say they're casual, they love to say, and we were really thoughtful about this 20,000 person layoff that you got via email this morning at 6 a.m. But it's it's it's it's and it's material to the economy, to the the America, the U.S. economy. It's it's in a material impact. And we've been the last several years, it's just been tens of thousands of from all the biggest tech firms just laying off, and it's an explode, all these families are just getting wrecked, and these kids don't know, and it's it's just devastating.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05No, uh I yeah it's not one person, it's not just the employee. Do you know what I mean? The whole family, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the whole community. And then also for the local the local businesses, right? I mean, even at my my you know, I still go to the pro club here in Bellevue. Yeah, and play tennis there, and you know, every week or two, it was one less person because they got laid off on Microsoft, so they don't have to pill for them anymore.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, so and that's obviously a trivial impact compared to other things, but local businesses get less business, and then you know, it's it's uh it used to be there used to be attrition. Like you used to say, well, if I'm if I have too many employees, I'll just split my I'll put a hiring freeze on and I'll just let attrition you know at 10% fill them out. But that went out the window years ago, and now I mean the the thing that this law street logs isn't actually announced at your yeah, well, it's such a weird trade-off.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, asymmetric uh trade-off. Hey, we're going to aqua hire uh 10 people for 20 billion dollars on one hand, and then on the other, we're gonna lay off 20,000 people to save 20 billion dollars or whatever, you know what I'm saying? All right, so that we can pay for some non-essential AI. I mean, here's the thing we were fine without AI, and I know that sounds like sacrilege, but AI has not proven to be essential. Do you know what I'm saying? It's not like oil, it's not like food, and and it's amazing uh how how much we're investing in something that is ultimately not essential. Yeah, it's all for what? Advertising at the end of the day, you know, hyper-targeted advertising, so a few companies can make massive, yeah, um, you know, while at the same time um expanding their margins, um, you know, pumping out synthetic uh synthetic uh content, basically to gin up the the uh their TAM. I mean, come on. Yeah. How does this make any sense? Like what we're talking about um uh a year ago. Uh you know, are we building a fake economy? Is this like a complete uh you know economy of BS? And at the end of the day, how are we gonna compete if the only thing we have is bullshit that we're creating at the end of the day, right? I mean, how do you I mean seriously? Think about it. What is the worth of a lot of the content that's out there? The the stuff that's generated by AI? What is its actual worth? It's actually pretty reckless.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, it's true. I mean, but I guess with any technology, you know, people use it uses purposes and for good purposes too. So yeah, AI is going to accelerate music. Yeah, let's pull it in.
SPEAKER_04Generative AI is going to is AI. Not AI, because I got I got reprimanded by uh one of my friends on LinkedIn uh for uh you know uh um lasting your traditional machine learning. Yeah, which works and is good. Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_03So not only but there's implementations of generative AI, like you know, chat box, things like that, where and then content, like you say, content creation, you know, like kind of just slot creation, uh just to feed the algorithm is obviously hopefully the someone will figure out how to disincentivize people to do that. Right now they're incentivized, so that's what's uh that's what's happening.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. Look at my post on uh vibe coding, dude. Holy crap. You know, why'd that go? Why are you pushing that of all of all of the content that I put out there? Why would you push that one?
SPEAKER_05Right. I've got to show you a video because it's funny. And it's related to like pitching VCs, so you're like this. I'm I'm Ross.
SPEAKER_02I'm Natalie. I graduated from Stanford. I dropped out of Harvard when I was 14. And I uh exited my first company when I was eight. We are both CS majors. I I have a PhD in in biophysics. We spend most of our time at our hacker house. It's 14 dudes in the three bedroom. We're pre-product, pre-revenue, and pre-idea. Is it AI? Probably. Yeah, we're thinking AI. That's 20 million sounds. That's fun. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Sorry, we can't use this.
SPEAKER_04Dude, um that is so friggin' true. Um, I was at a vendor event and they held a contest. You know, they had like a founder's contest or a startup contest, and the company that won um had like a one-on-one with the CEO, and then uh after listening to him about five minutes, I says, Okay, so you won an AI award. I'm listening to you uh what you've just told me. Based on what you've told me, I don't see anything AI AI about it. Right, right. He told me, he's like, Yeah, I guess you're right.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I just love it. We're pre-revenue, uh, pre-product, pre-idea. Pre-idea. Is it gonna be AI? Uh yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Like I said, 20 million million.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04I mean, this is this is like, you know, why I guess we're laughing and we're making such a joke of this, is because this is just like watching Silicon Valley 2.0. I mean, really, this is what makes Silicon Valley, the show, so funny. Yeah, because we saw people do stupid shit like this, yes, you know, and then fall to this cult mentality. Cult mentality! This is cult mentality, people. And you know, I I mean, think about it. All people all these people who are caught in this cult mindset. Yeah, what's gonna happen when all this collapses? You know, these people are gonna be so ass hurt. I know, and we're not even talking about the good cult. They're gonna lose a lot of their money, too, at the same time, because that's what always happens.
SPEAKER_05Speak speaking of the cult, sometime you gotta play some guitars from the band. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's the good cult. Oh, that's the best cult.
SPEAKER_05The cult of the cult. Man, there's some good songs there, man. I love those guys. Yeah, Pete. Well, P was frozen for a while. I think I think they got to him. They got it. They yeah, you know what? He was in a public place and he was easily accessible, and the agents got him. Yeah, got him. They said, There is that. There he is. Get him. Yeah, he's being subversive on the air. Can't have that. You have to take him down. Yeah, I hope Rick Beato's okay. I hope they haven't taken him down yet.
SPEAKER_04But you know, that that is such a good point, though, uh, that he was making, and it's it's the democratization is what kills the big guys, and and that's what the smartphone did. The well, you know, the smartphone didn't take out the PC, but it was the growth opportunity. It's the thing that took a lot of the wind out of the sails of um the PC makers. Yeah, and so yeah, uh in that regard, you're totally right.
SPEAKER_05Um and Pete, Pete, we were really worried that since you're in a public place and we were having a subversive conversation, you got to do that. The agents got to you.
SPEAKER_03You kind of put a bag over my head and oh my god, yeah.
SPEAKER_04You're in a van. Yeah, we're about that. We predict that uh Edge Found uh Edge AI Foundation is gonna uh is gonna just go ballistic uh next year. Yeah, so you're in the right place, man. I mean, uh I I I'm really looking forward to listening in on uh Durga's um presentation. Uh I'll probably share it with everybody because yeah, I think we'll we'll publish it on Monday.
SPEAKER_03We'll publish it Monday. So yeah, it was a good talk, and it's a good data group on high altitude outlook on the beauty of our JROS.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, it's gonna be great. Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts. It's this is this year is gonna be a really crazy one for quote unquote AI. Um I think you know, even when we compare to ourselves, you know, when we compare what we were talking about last year, this time to um this year, everything is flipped, you know.
SPEAKER_05And um we're not talking Flip Wilson, folks.
SPEAKER_04No. I love that guy. He's like one of my little obscure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, him and uh I'm here for obscure references.
SPEAKER_04Okay, there we go. I remember Flip Wilson. He's a great comedian. Yeah. Huh? Singer. Singer.
SPEAKER_03Oh, say oh, I thought he was uh Flip Wilson was a comedian, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_05Like Yeah. Oh, he's screwing up. He had a variety show for a while.
SPEAKER_03That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_04I just remembered he was funny, but but yeah, you're right. You know what? All of them were so freaking talented, right? Like uh um uh what's his name? Roy Clark. I I knew that he played guitar, I just didn't know that he was like oh yeah, he was a virtuoso and uh freaking ridiculous. I mean, he was really ridiculous. It's like when you found out he's a comedian, he's an actor, you know. Right?
SPEAKER_05It's like when you found out that Glenn, when you found out Glenn Campbell's one of the best guitarists in the world. Oh, I know like how did that happen?
SPEAKER_04I know. I thought you just did like, didn't he like host uh solid gold or something like that? But he was a Rhinestone cowboy. Rhinestone cowboy, uh yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, he was ridiculous. Did you see that? Did you see that footage or that uh variety show footage where he's playing with uh George Benson? Oh, he went toe-to-toe with uh George Benson. Incredible. Wow, that's I mean, yeah, they were trading licks, and I was like watching it going, oh my god, you know, this this is like virtuosity, you know, 50 years ago, and all these kids think that they're shredders today. These guys were shredding long time ago, you know, way before anybody uh was uh doing that stuff, and it's amazing stuff. It's just we don't know about it because jazz flute, jazz flute, yeah, yeah, not to be confused with a pen flute.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05Totally different, totally different, totally different.
SPEAKER_03Vampir, vampir you're talking about yeah.
SPEAKER_04I'm sure there's a lot of stuff we uh didn't talk about that we probably should have talked about, but anyways, I think that's all right.
SPEAKER_05This might be our last conversation before the agents come for us.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, the the abundance before the Logan's run. I think Logan's Run is gonna be what happens afterwards.
SPEAKER_05Is that what you're is that what you're hoping for? Logan's run?
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_04Much everyone's asking. Everyone gets a quota of life.
SPEAKER_05I'm sure that P will be renewed. Yeah, hope so. Hope so, yeah. I hope so. Yeah, but you know, as uh what's his name? Alan Kay said, you know, the best way to invent the create the predict the future is invent it. So if you want Logan's Run instead of Mad Max, folks, you've got to invent it.
SPEAKER_04Let's get started.
SPEAKER_05Let's get started right now, building the dome city and everything.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, skip the whole abundance part, get to Logan's Run.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Right? All right, runner.
SPEAKER_04Or is Logan's Run the abundance end state?
SPEAKER_05It could be, or the matrix might be the abundance. Yeah, you just don't it sounds dystopian, but compared to the alternative, which could be Mad Max out in the wilderness.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, could be you know, and you know, here's the crazy thing. We didn't think like this before Chat GPT and all this ASI and everything was going great. Everything was going great, right? I mean, think about it.
SPEAKER_03We didn't have this contrived energy crisis, we didn't have well it's I would say though, you know, the internet did turn in around 2010. The internet got dark, right? I mean, when the internet was first on the public consciousness back in turn of a century, right? You know, 2000. The late 90s, it was all abundance and joy, and then within 2010, 2012, it was Cambridge, you know, Analytica and manipulation, it was it got the internet got dark about 2010. And now 10 years later, and we were in the kind of AI era, we getting that nobody loved it, you know, darkness.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, you know, it was getting it was the darkness was starting from the beginning.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_04Was there the darkest thing? It's like that rocket darkness. It was already already dark, people didn't know it. No, it was uh I mean, I I worked with a lot of the you know uh search engine companies when they just started. So I know this for a fact. There was a lot of darkness, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It got dark for them, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, it got dark for them, and then uh Google took it to the next level.
SPEAKER_03Do no evil, ironically.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean it's so dark that Microsoft didn't even bother to get up on stage at RSAC conference and uh talk about how much bigger the criminal uh the cyber criminal economy has grown to. It's probably like uh 15 billion now, a trillion.
SPEAKER_05Didn't they say did they say that that's the is it the second or third largest economy in the world?
SPEAKER_04Third and will very soon become the second largest economy, larger than China's economy. And then uh who knows, eventually that the global that global cybercrime uh criminal economy will probably be become bigger than the US economy.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's all the laid off also.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and and and we can thank crypto criminal economy. Yeah, we can thank crypto for uh for that because crypto.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, crypto.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the only reason why I say that is go and check out the the daily volumes. Whenever anytime shit goes down, the volumes are massive. You know, you have uh uh tens of billions of dollars circulating through that thing. And that does not make it a store of value. Right?
SPEAKER_03It's not a store of value, it's so it's not a currency, it's just crypto. Yeah, it it's crypto without the currency.
SPEAKER_04It's it's a money tra it's a value transfer mechanism, unregulated, anonymous, and perfect for the cyber criminal economy. I mean what can go wrong? Yeah, yeah. I mean, so anyway, um that note I would have to say thoroughly depressed.
SPEAKER_03Cornby fashion pancakes are still good, so that still works.
SPEAKER_05Yes, yay, we got that working pretty good. All right, uh you want to take us out? Take us out, Pete.
SPEAKER_03Sure. Well, you've been listening to another uplifting hour of IoT Coffee Talk as you pack your go bag and uh head toward your your uh your bunker. Um but no, it's uh uh what else are so we're we're happy that you're here. You should subscribe on YouTube, you should listen on Substack, all these other places you find IoT Coffee Talk. And then we'll have Elevate Our Communities. Is that the is it elevate our communities.org?
SPEAKER_06Yep.
SPEAKER_03Is that the URL? Perfect. So make sure you visit that because that's really the kind of underlying speaking of society and sort of doing good things to society. That's actually the one of the happier notes out there. So try and use tech to build so is the good job. So I'll make sure you visit that as well. And uh yeah, keep keep your uh keep your hopes up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. There you go.
SPEAKER_03Keep your weird ways. Let's get small. Let's get small.
SPEAKER_05All right. All right, take care. Adios. Bye bye. See you on the other side.
