SPEAKER_04 1:02

So smooth. Great introduction.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Marvin Gate! Oh, okay. All right. You've been you've been listening to too much grunge music. Yeah. Concrete. Yeah, I know. You know, the um concrete is one of the words, the big words from the grunge area. Mosquito and libido. Mosquito and libido. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Yeah, what I think it was only in one song, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

I mean, you know, part of that whole style of music was um to make sure that your audience uh didn't understand what you're saying and invested a lot of cerebral energy into figuring out what you were saying. You know, you know what really astonishes me is how some people freaking figure it out. They go, oh well, he's saying this.

unknown 2:08

Like what?

SPEAKER_03 2:09

He's like babbling.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

But isn't what's happening with AI nowadays all the time?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Uh uh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

You know, I reached out to Stephanie and I'm like, girl, you need to be on the show. It's right now. And she keeps saying, Oh, it's 11:30 on her calendar. I was like, you need to update it. Because I thought she wrote a good substack post. She substacked. And I re-stacked it. And I re-stacked it.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

Yeah, I restacked it too.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Just the, you know, it's stuff we kind of already know, but you know, this it's just back to cybersecurity and the whole OTIT and how we thought that was a great idea, and maybe we were so wrong, um, you know, and it's like we're about to just be hacked to oblivion. You know, like we used to worry about critical infrastructure. Obviously, several weeks ago, we heard about the water treatment facilities uh getting hacked. Boy, that is just the tiniest tip of the iceberg, man. Yeah, it's gonna be so ugly.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Well, it's it's it's even worse than that because you know, with with the whole thing we've been talking about for quite a while, which is your edge, which is fundamentally the proliferation of software on every single physical object. So now your the attack surface suddenly increased from being your the computer in your room behind your locked door to every single piece of physical system that has a piece of firmware that you can point uh a smart AI model at right now and find some vulnerabilities. So uh I I was at you know I was at DEF CON a few weeks ago, and you know you see now a whole generation of people who just basically take every single piece of electronics that has a USB port, plug it in, point an agent to the the the software update process from the manufacturer, and then you go find vulnerability and you can patch the thing all the time.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Yeah. Well, you know you know what everyone needs to do, our audience, do this. Go and watch every uh keynote from a security conference since the uh advent of ChatGPT, and you will see how wrong the entire cybersecurity industry was and continues to be. They do not see I just got back from Hot Chips right this week. My brain is totally fried. Absolutely frightening how people are only talking about confidential computing now and security on chip uh in the system. Uh you know, a lot of the racks that have been delivered are not even security secure ready, they're not ready for multi-tenancy, they don't have the chip level uh you know components or and and IP to do that. And so you have a whole generation of uh uh you know accelerators out there that you you cannot safely deploy uh for an enterprise. Uh you know, I I it's I see too much. I want to tear my eyes out. But anyways, welcome to the IoT Coffee Talk.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yes, yes, ignorance was bliss, yeah. But now that we know what's really going on, I can't sleep at night, you know, I'm stressed, I'm feeling like pain in my chest.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

You you're you're reinforcing that ignorance is still bliss.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Right. So uh remember, um, you know, welcome. We love that you're here. Um welcoming. Yeah, get ready for a whole like bag of reality to hit you over the head. Um, because that's what we're about. But remember, uh, we're here for fun. And if you take us seriously, yeah, you're yeah, that's not that's not cool, peoples. So uh yeah, just uh sit back, uh relax, and uh get your weekly dose of reality, tech reality here on the only talk show that really kind of breaks it down, you know? No hype down, break it down, right? Um and yeah, um enjoy. Remember, if you don't you don't, you know, you're not into saving humanity and stuff like that, but you're into fashion. How do you call me?

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Yeah, um I just want to look fashionable while the world burns.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Yes, we care, and we have a charity called uh Elevate Our Communities. It used to be called Elevate Our Kids, but apparently, you know, um anyway, that was a long story. So we've pivoted just like so many AI companies, we have pivoted to elevating communities because guess what? Things are gonna get really weird uh real, and we're entering probably the worst. I mean, San Diego feels like Miami on the hottest day. Hot and human power. Yeah, it's insane. Um, but if you're still one of those stragglers who doesn't think that humans have any impact on the environment, well, this year I'm sure you're gonna be unpleasantly surprised. But we have good news. Rob has this gigantic friggin' book that he wrote. There you go, right? This look, read Saving the Earth with the guess what? Yo T, baby.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

It's all about our show, man. It's finally gonna happen. Yeah, I'm finally gonna make it.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

I might have the first copy in Switzerland. Uh I've taken the copy to the vineyards so I can read to the grapes about the solutions, the actionable things that are in here for farmers everywhere to uh look at it. But but you know, the um I don't know, sticking to farmers and vineyards. So in the in the last 100 years, at least in Switzerland, there's only been three times in the last 100 years where they've had to harvest uh before middle of September and of August. This year is one of those three times. And I like to put it in context, like hey, three times in a hundred years, is that a lot? It's just that the last three times have been in the last 12 years.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Ouch. Wait, is that like a trend?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

You know, I'm terrible with graphs. Um exponential. But, you know, I think it's um it's a it's a microcosm of how uh climate change or a different climate or a different cycling climate, however you wanna, however you want to call it, is forcing uh real changes to uh an industry like the folks that make wine uh for a living. Um and I hope, I really hope IoT saves them. But you know, we always talk about uh gathering data so that you can have actionable data, make better decisions. One of the problems uh in that lives in data is that the places that were tax funded that do all the weather research and then deploy that research for the better of humanity, uh they don't have as many folks employed anymore. So we're not getting as much data. So the models can have so if you're out there, listener, and you feel that you've gone into your favorite weather app, whatever that is, and for whatever reason, it's just not matching like it used to. You know, five years ago, if it's gonna rain, it's gonna rain, and it's gonna tell me a nine, and now it's just you're not getting that is because there's less data being captured, and the models are falling behind, and the farmers are receiving the brunt of this lack of weather data where they are not able to make decisions as as well as they used to before. Uh so there there's a little you know IoT vineyard uh plug.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

It's interesting you're saying that there is less data, because um on the contrary, I have I'm another perception that there is actually more data. Now, the thing that is happening, the thing that is happening is that because we have you know impact I mean the impact of climate change is a pretty dramatic event that actually destroys all the historical data. And it's gonna take us some time before we can refine them all. And to some extent, you know Dimitri being Dimitri, the thing that the risk in all this technology is that instead of trying to fix the root cause problem, we actually just learn to live with it and develop the technology to adapt to gigantic change in our climate. As opposed to what is the root cause and what we should do to treat it at the root cause level. I'm not saying it was gonna happen that uh many times in our history where you're humans are creative, uh you're learning to live with crap using technology as opposed to oh what took me there, what should I change fundamentally? So I do not have to pile a lot of technology on top of the shit I made. So that's that's one of the danger. But we're getting into the philosophical discussion here. But uh and anyway, I have a copy too, Rob. So and I can love it. I can't wait for you to sign it.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

I'm glad you took a picture with it, man. That's what it's all about. We're just gonna have the biggest collage of people. You love it.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Well that that was that was just me being uh egocentric and saying, well, they're all having a picture with the book. I don't have mine. So I took mine and posted it.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Don't worry. It's not like you live in a place where there's anyone that's egocentric in this country right now.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Oh, yeah, I'm very bad. Yeah, and especially and especially in the Bay Area, I'm very low in the I'm a very small fish in a very, very big pound.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

So a really, really, really, really horrific thing just happened a couple days ago in Nepal. Um, I I I'm sure you all saw the videos. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and those people never had a chance. It was just insane. Um and how does it tie in to this? Believe it or not, it's too late, and it may not have made a difference because it all happens so fast. Sometimes an alert, a warning time when you it's seconds, it may not make a difference. Um use case 15.9, which is in the chapter on life on land, we have something called Glacier Melt Monitoring Station. And so not only is it measuring the slow melt of glaciers over time, which is kind of the global warming thing, but it actually has alerting for something. The acronym is Gluff, G-L-O-F. It's Glacier Lake Outbreak Flood.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

What the Gluff?

SPEAKER_02 13:59

What the Gluff? And most people have never heard of this, but I've already heard the term several times on TV as a result of this. The glacier got wacky, melted enough. I think it fell maybe a kilometer or something, caused a mini earthquake, water builds up and then it breaks, or whatever. And so that's a real thing. And so you might be surprised to know that we have a use case and a recipe for exactly what just happened in Nepal to monitor that and to alert it when it happens. Again, it may not have made a difference because everything happens so fast. Um, it's not like Team America with helicopters are gonna fly in instantly and pick everybody up before the water comes through. Um, but yes, it's a thing. Gluff. Who knew?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, it's a terrible acronym uh to know, Rob. Terrible. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yeah, you know, it's Gluff for 200. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah, but man, uh, you know, I I think um nobody cares. Um AI data centers are the only things that matter, Rob.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Yeah, I mean, like right here in the text, mountain glaciers feed substantial portions of seasonal water supplies in regions like the Andes, Himalayas, Alps, and others. Continuous monitoring supports research and downstream community water planning, including glacier lake outburst, flood, early warning.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah. Anyway, you know, personally, I think we hold the answer to this. And what we need to do, we need to stop showering and drinking water because the AI data center needs this water for cooling. Okay, we we gotta stop being selfish. We have to give it to them.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Oh, but they say uh the the water problem is solved.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Oh, it is? Oh, I missed that.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Some of our analyst friends love to tap that everyone's wrong and the water thing is solved. And so stop saying it. It's misinformation.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

That that's misinformation. I I I was at Hot Chips and we were talking about how the um cooling topic was not there. They're pretty much tapped out. And and the thing is, is yeah, you have two-phase cooling that we can look forward to, but the problem is they use highly toxic gases for and fluids for that. Well, you know, the state change. It it's it changes state uh within the closed loop system. And um here's the problem climate change actually impacts what kind of cooling you use. And um, depending on the humidity, uh, the temperature, um uh the availability of um power, obviously, uh the cooling is uh it requirements uh whatever is optimal changes through the course of the day. So this idea that you're gonna get rid of evaporation and chillers is kind of naive because now, because of the the weather and the climate is becoming so volatile, uh let's say that you went and you did dry uh dry um cooling, right? So instead of having an evaporator and a chiller, you you took you had the uh uh closed loop cooling uh fluid, uh hit a radiator, and then the heat gets transferred and radiated out with these big fans. Guess what? You have to use like three or four times the energy, right? So then you cause an energy problem, but then you also cause thermal issues because the air is very, very hot and you're dumping it into the public.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

And um no, I'm sorry, Leonard. Dumping what? All these none of these data centers are close to where the people live. These data centers are nowhere near the population. The little gas, you know, who cares? There's no one there.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Yeah, it's so far out. Yeah, and if you do live next to it, who cares?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

You know, suck it up, but you if you listen to the hum, your lungs are gonna be okay. That's how you know you're breathing properly. If the hum is there. Yeah, forget forget white noise.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

It's a white noise, it is not a white noise.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

That's what it is. That's what we're gonna tell them. Because you're right, we've had friends of ours who are executives at the biggest hyperscalers talk to us about well, the water problem is solved, but we have to use like dramatically more energy in order to do the closed loop thing. Um, but we're good and don't worry about it. I thought it was interesting uh about the energy thing. Um here in Texas, the the governor kind of came out and said we're gonna do a pause on data centers, even though you know he was all over the data centers and saying Texas is gonna lead the nation in AI, blah, blah, blah. And I heard until more studies are done. But anyway, I heard a quote, I heard a deal that they said for all the planned data centers, AI data centers that to come online in Texas will require more energy than five Texas at peak load. And so it turns out I don't think we have enough.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I know all places, your residents of the great set of Texas, GST. Why we already have some great issues in Texas with a current load from regular people living. Yeah. And we and and and we want to, you know, this reminds me of the um was the what was the guy's name? The Philip Morris in the mid-90s telling us, no, this stuff not addictive, totally cool. Uh Zuckerberg this week. Uh no, this stuff is not addictive, totally cool. So surely these folks are also just being honest, like, no impact to the grid, five times the size of Texas. Cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:27

Yeah, but there's a there's a constant in what you're saying, David, is humans, humans, humans. So now imagine you're the machines and you want to grow. We we're heading exactly where Rob says all the time we're heading to the matrix, guys. We're heading to the matrix.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Those human anxiety You're a battery, and you're a battery, and you're a battery.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

Those human annoyance, what can we do about it? This is what the machines are thinking now. This is what Claude, I'm sure, is using 20% of his capacity. How can I get rid of this human annoyance?

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yeah, well, you know, like um, this is like three and a half years ago when we had that uh metaverse plus uh uh generative AI episode. That's exactly what we said. The the AI is eventually gonna figure out um, you know, these humans are uh annoying. And also, I'm reading all these uh sustainability white papers that have been written out. Because remember, at some point, uh we actually cared about sustainability. So we wrote all of these papers about how humans were contributing to climate change that could be detrimental to our environment. So if if if these models have been trained on all this stuff, they're gonna come to the conclusion. It's like, okay, um, humans equals death of planet. Get rid of humans. Yeah, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Get them out of there.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Yeah, you know what I mean? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

I think. I mean, you might be wrong. I think we have single digit episodes of Coffee Talk where we were talking about sustainable development goals in IoT. Like if you look back at the first 10 or 20, we had at least two of them. Go look.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yeah. I mean, is that crazy? All that time ago, we were already talking about it. It was obvious to us that IoT could play a role.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

All I hope is that when we get plugged into the Matrix, I want my cord not to be on the back of my neck. I want it right on my forehead so I can see it dangling.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

So that I know I'm plugged.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

You know, Apple's gonna come out with a special dongle for that because they'll make more margin on that than they will with an iPhone.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

Thunderbolt 10. No, it's it's not Apple, it's SpaceX.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

SpaceX, okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

Or whatever conglomerate company that is SpaceX now.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

But see, that that's the weird thing. It's um uh it takes catastrophe for people to care. You know, one of the things I noticed, Rob, uh, was uh when you see what the Chinese response is now, because there's uh apparently another glacier or um a pooling of water way out in the Himalayas somewhere that's uh on the verge of just like creating another incident. Um they're sending up drones, and you know, one of the problems is there's not a lot of air up there, so the you know, some of these drones aren't gonna make it. But if you if you have some of these uh these more economical, easily deployable uh solutions that uh are in your book that we've been talking about for years now. And it's weird to say that we've been talking about it for years, right? It's like, oh hey, look, this is cool now, so let's start a podcast, right? Um it nobody gave a shit, but now um, you know, if anyone bothers to read this, you're gonna find out you can do it a hell of cheaper in a way that is much more um you know effective, I think, than sending up a drone because you know the drones it doesn't have long loitering time, right? That's the problem. Here you can have persistent monitoring, so when something is about to give, you can actually issue that early warning. And so this is that's the state that they're in right now. You know what I'm saying? And and you know, probably the and you know what the the tech techno yahoos are gonna do? They're gonna focus on a drone because wow, look at what the drone is doing. Oh, it's doing the ear. No, it's not doing the early warning, it can't, it's just gonna observe, take a snapshot, and have to come back down the fucking hill, right? Uh and you will not get the early warning because it, you know, and um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

But Leonard, you know, the um the uh but here's the thing today we'll we won't get into details, but when we go, when we grab the drone category, the priority of innovation and drone advancements, like uh like additional flight time and and additional maneuvering is being invested in other categories that have nothing to do with surveying the environment, with sustainability and preservation of life in mind. It's not that it cannot do it, it's just that no one is doing it, which is unfortunate for what you're you're talking about.

unknown 25:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Yeah, yeah, but no, but it's also getting excited about the wrong technology and then you know looking at something that's uh expensive and not fit for purpose as being the solution, and it's because some drone guy wants to sell more drones. But what the discipline that we all uh that that everyone should have is to focus on the cheap stuff that works, right? And this is the problem. Nobody gives a shit about IoT. And so, you know, this is uh it becomes the missed opportunity, right? And and then, you know, because all the SATCOM stuff that uh Vinke and uh and crew at the Things Industries were doing like three years ago. That that's how you communicate and transfer that um you know uh the sensor information to the helium community is still listening to this.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

You guys should send uh some hardware over to uh all of the glaciers in the world. Let's get so let's let's let's get this open on us.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

To show you, I'm gonna show you share something real fast and then I'll take it down just to show you how long we've been talking about the stuff that's in this book. Can you see my screen? No, okay, no 2020. Look at that. 2020, United Nations sustainable. Look, is that crazy? I mean, we were already doing events, we were talking about this stuff in our earliest episodes. Uh, because I have a lot of people going, what have you been how long have you been working on this thing? They don't believe me. I'm like, man, we just had we've just been talking about it and doing PowerPoints and doing keynotes and panel discussions, but we needed to just get it on paper.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

You know what was crazy? Because I remember when you published that, that was that was like leading edge leadership. Nobody was thinking, and then you have these bozos uh going to uh uh you know like friggin' the uh Davos and stuff talking a bunch of nonsense, you know?

SPEAKER_04 27:39

So none of you know I I'm not sure I would call that nonsense. I mean they are talking about the things that drive them, and the the issue is that we haven't find as a humanity drivers that are a little higher level, I would say, and more inspirational. Our drivers are power, dominance. I mean I would I would argue that the most innovation that's happening in the drone industry now, and there's an enormous amount of innovation in the drone industry. Do you know why it's happening? It's happening in Russia. It's happening in Ukraine and in Russia.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah, true. Yeah, you mean it's giving them all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

What?

SPEAKER_03 28:21

All the parts. The weaponization of drones. Yeah, but the weaponization technology.

SPEAKER_04 28:27

Yeah, but the this is the main driver. As soon as you start investing in a soul focused, you actually advance the technology extremely significantly. They're not just using things on shelves to make weapons.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

They're applying the technology in a very advanced way.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

No, they are doing they are developing it as well. They are doing both at the end.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

What are they developing? What are they developing?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

They're buying. They've had to sort out the comms. There's been a lot of innovation in how to communicate with your drone in a way that you can minimize interference. They've also sorted out um, and I don't know the technical details, but you know, this basically this fly-by-thread situation where the on paper, uh, traditionally the drone is blind. Like I have no remote control over this thing, but I know exactly where it's going. Uh, and maybe and maybe the difference is semantics. Like, yes, they are putting this into play for some time now, but it's not like they went to some conference and hooked up with a developer and then they did it.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Exactly. But but the the so this is goes goes back to the conflation so many people have. There's a difference between the technology and application. Most companies are not technology companies. They don't develop the they don't actually develop the technology that goes into an application. Then there's the field application. And so this goes back to like those basic uh uh architecture um, you know, and principles about talking about solutions and you know, having an architecture to structure that that solution. It also applies to the way you look at industries and markets. This is something that a lot of people are very poor at doing. And I say this because I observe the the problem all the time. And and so, you know, um where in it, and this is important because you know, with 6G, this whole idea of SEP and blah blah blah, it's really important because you have to trace all this stuff. I just threw it in my mouth.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

He just said 6G. Oh my god. Whatever.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

5G, mobile, SCP, and all that stuff. But you know, one of the big tricks is getting getting all that stuff right and figuring out who actually originated the technology that is patentable. And then I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Is it awkward or weird to say that China inadvertently is helping Ukraine turn the tide, even though China's best buddies with the Soviet with Putin? It's DJI off-the-shelf drones, is how the whole thing got started. That's exactly 1000% how Ukraine began the process of turning the tide. Off-the-shelf DJI drones, and then they learn about oh, the Russians are jamming the frequencies. What if we have this super long fiber optic cable that's longer? Oh, wait, I talked to Rob on a submarine and they have wire-guided torpedoes. Maybe we should try that with drones.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

I don't know. Well, you know, like the tow missile is wire guided. They've had they've had wire-guided missiles forever. It's not an original concept.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

It's figuring it out. It's being scrappy. Just being scrappy.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

I mean, we're gonna bring this thing from the 60s.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yeah, we're getting our ass kicked. So I just went to Walmart and got some DJI drones, and then I connected a cord to it that's three miles long, and we're back in the game.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Yeah, I mean, isn't the javelin javelin is even uh a wire? That's laser guided. No, it's laser guided. But you know, there's a lot of yeah, wires have been uh part of uh munitions for a long time. Wire, you know, like stuff like uh tow missiles and other and not hellfire.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Just a reminder to all you uh telecom people out there wireless is made of wireless wires. It is the wireless part is something you might call like the last mile. Like one of them. Make no mistake, wireless is made of wires. Really long ones, really long. And we because we like an alien spaceship crash landed in New Mexico, and that's how we got fiber optic technology because that just came out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Yeah. Yeah, sorry. Uh yeah, um it looks like he's biting his lip, so he wants to tear someone's head off. So Demetrius, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

No, no, no, no. I was I was thinking of I was thinking of something else. So you you you you you you guided my brain into another set of things.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Uh I I trigger you. No, but see, this is what's cool, right? Yeah, especially when you start biting your lip, we know we know something really good is gonna happen after this.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Okay, so everybody's best friend, Bill Gates, posted something this week. They don't like him anymore, but they kind of go, Oh, yeah, he might be right about some of this stuff, you know. Um and it's not new to us, but a whole lot of people were like, Whoa, you mean this AI stuff might be bad? We might lose jobs. I've never heard that before. Wow, that's crazy. Um, yeah, and but he says it like it is. The people who are involved in it are not saying it. It's because there's so much money involved. There's trillions of dollars involved, and so that's why people are keeping the people who are looking to make money in this deal are keeping their mouths shut about how dramatically horrific this could turn out for all of us, you know? Um money. That's always the money thing, isn't it? Right, yeah. Yeah, yes, you know, it's like when Hans says, I'm an exceptional thief. Who said we were terrorists?

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Yeah, I I I don't dis I don't I don't disagree. There's a money aspect, but there's also there's a geopolitical aspect as well, because there is a race for technology because China between between China and the USA on that element, and that's fueling it. I mean, we and we should not forget history. We should remember about the Soviet Union. You knew what was one of the major factors, the fall of the Soviet Union. The arm rates. No, the arm rates. The arm rates towards nuclear nuclear missile robot.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Russia basically killed this economy trying to catch up with us. So it is not difficult to imagine that such a similar scenario could happen between AI with the superpower nowadays, racing for it.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Yeah, you know, the ironic thing is that the uh the Soviets uh invested in numbers and and hardware, right? So they had like two, three times the number of main battle tanks that we had, you know. I mean, it was always about the numbers, right? Except for aircraft carriers. We had more aircraft carriers, carrier groups. They didn't uh they were really more about um well, you know, they they had the benefit of having a uh a contiguous uh landmass that uh you know fuses Asia with Europe and the Middle East. So they they don't need a a Navy like the US does, right? Um it was all about um numbers for them. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Because the doctrine was that in order to maintain your potential you know influence or power, you had two routes. One route was the volume of the arms you had, the other one was the technology. And yes, the Soviet blocks or and to some extent early China was all on the numbers, and the US was more on the technology. The problem we're seeing right now is you need both. If you don't uh both. Yes, in a drone war context, you need both the tech, and drones are totally changing the face of wars. That's that's the reality. You need both the industrial ability to produce in en masse and you need the advanced technology. You can't lasers. Yeah. Well, lasers are part of it. Sharks? From sharks?

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Sharks with frapping laser beams attached to their heads. If we have lasers, we're good. We're good. You know, all right, that's the story.

SPEAKER_04 36:47

No, we we're not, Rob, because it's the same analogy of the Napoleon Wars. I mean, you have the you have you have the rifles and you have the people, just put more people until the rifles are too hot. So just put more drones until the lasers are too hot.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

And that's a good point that it even holds to today, you know, not to gloss over or characterize uh the Russian people historically, they're on board and okay with throwing bodies at problems and have no regard for human life. And so if the only way to win a war or not lose a war is to just keep throwing bodies into a meat grinder, they absolutely will do it. And they've shown that historically. They always do that, absolutely, because they're outmatched, out tech, out everything usually is how it plays out. We'll just keep throwing bodies at it with rifles until whatever. Um, I had an interesting experience. I'm gonna say it was in all right. Do you remember when we had the uh the tsunami? Was the earthquake and you had the tsunami that hit Thailand, Fouquet? Yeah. Remember, I went through the they even made movies about it and all that kind of stuff. I just happened to be flying to Malaysia like a week or two after that happened. So this is in um 2005, let's say, January 2005. I'm flying to Kuala Lumpur, and uh I think I'd stopped in Amsterdam at Skipple and was going there. Anyway, I happened to be on the plane sitting next to this guy, and he was a Russian guy. And I don't know, we were just shooting the ship because it's a long flight. And um, he was like, Oh, you were submarines, oh, you you're on Trident submarines with the ballistic missiles pointed at us. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, you know, the whole Cold War deal, you guys and us and all that. And he goes, he goes, my he's like, he goes, my dad was part of our nuclear ICBM program, you know, in the military, and he did a lot of instrumental stuff. And so it was an interesting conversation, but the way it wound up, he just said, Do you know why we lost the Cold War? And I said, Tell me. He goes, microprocessors, you guys had advanced chips and technologies that we just didn't have and we could not get our hands on. We got little bits here and there through black market stuff, but he he he said it was the chips, it was semiconductors, and then what you built on top of advanced semiconductors that we just couldn't couldn't do. And I was like, that's interesting. Yeah, I hadn't really heard that before. Well, that's the telling side, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

That's actually totally correct because I knew I had good friends in the in the in the in the fighter jets you know industry and the post-cold war when you could examine the the Russian uh fighters. One there was two fascinating things. One was they got definitely out-technologized because of new microprocessor. But if you look at the way they worked, they were losing like 10 times less sensors than the US or the European ones, uh, but they had much smarter algorithms. Uh so they were kind of on par until the jump with the microprocessor. They were kind of on par because they applied much more smarter equation logic, whatever with less sensors. So they will they would be able to extract more from less with using their brains, which at some point stopped, uh unfortunately. But uh but yeah, the the the the the breakthrough for technology was definitely uh with the microprocessor, the the semiconductor industry.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

And and you know what it was, the advantage that the US had was actually um represented in the uh A4 uh the F-14 Tomcat uh radar. Um that thing had like twice the range because it it it carried the uh Phoenix uh missiles. I don't know if you guys have seen these things, these seems like friggin' huge, and uh they have a range of about a hundred and a hundred plus miles, and so you needed to have this massive radar, highly advanced radar to target the what they um you know were assuming are gonna be these uh Soviet bombers, right? So the Tomcat was designed to take out uh these nuclear bombers uh from Russia or the Soviet Union, and um that I think was the thing that has always been the advantage uh for the US until the Chinese now. Um and and you know, people who like you know don't think that wireless or RF is a strategic technology area, you're high on crack. Oh, it's it it totally is. And you know, I think you know, this is something that I I I argue with um a little bit with uh Rick uh on, because you know, I was mentioning 6G and say, hey, stop shilling 6G. I was like, no, you know, dude, I don't shill anything. You know how many times I've had people ask me to say all kinds of shit, silly shit, and I've told them no. Like, let's figure this out. Um but to completely dismiss uh mobile wireless and what the the guys who do RF do completely disregard that and think it's crap because 5G hype, not the technology, fell flat on its face. That's advantage China, especially Huawei. And um RF is super important. And right now, we don't give a shit about it. So, you know, the the way that this is you know, we always say why how hype is that well you can argue that Starlink is also evolution of RF.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

So in some sectors, yes, in some other no, I think.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

What do you think about RF? What what technology are they implementing that uh they've invented? I mean, you know, it's the question where where do they have an advantage where the Chinese, from a technological base, where the Chinese uh don't have that advantage? I mean the Chinese already have now reusable rockets. They do.

SPEAKER_04 42:49

Yeah, well, but it's a I mean it's a catch-up and it's a development. It's a catch-up to the development aspect. I think what we what I was saying earlier is that in the balance of modern conflict of opposition, you cannot only sustain with just the technology, you also have to have the industrial elements to deploy it at scale. And you kind of make my point. No, but you cannot argue that SpaceX was the first one to do that with Starlink. I mean you cannot argue against that. You can say now you can say China is catching up. Yes, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

If you're first. If you're first, you're last.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

You know, the uh I am not sure about that. I am not sure about that. What about nuclear bombs? I mean, what about nuclear bombs? You know who is the one who's first is last. I'm not so sure about that. I mean it's it's always a balance, but it's a balance.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

You're screwed, is like that one.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Everyone loves it, but there's no way this is another IoT coffee talk nugget, because you know you you guys are having the argument of of is there value yes or no on on being first or or being perceived first? Because that is that is a driver, right? Like if you're first to Market, you make the first money, and therefore you win. First means winning. Now, I I I love to uh you know wax po poetic about uh semiconductors and the reason the U.S. was so successful back then. In addition to Rob's book, which is an awesome book, there's also uh the idea lab from uh John Gardner, and he talks at length about the culture of innovation at Bell Labs. Yes, that Bell Labs. But the driver and the reason why they sunk something like 30% of revenues into RD is because it was who's the first to have an idea that we can scale? And it's okay if you fail uh you know for a couple of years and you just milk out a patent. And and and I think that's that's escaping us that we went from innovate, innovate, and it's good, and we'll make money and we'll be profitable, to now it's just like be first, even if it's hype, even if it violates the laws of physics with RF, just be first. And and and I don't know, it's uh it's it's it's two clashing bits.

SPEAKER_04 45:13

And uh I mean that that that raises the question we were alluding to of the driver. And and I think uh we we had this discussion in the past one of the episodes, and my point was I don't think there are higher level drivers that are you know inspiring enough. I haven't seen one. The race to the moon. It was actually enormous at some higher level I think ambition as a humanity. But then one theme that is being your embraced that's big as well, just trying to be first in economy, first in power, first in whatever. But there isn't a kind of big frameworks or ideas that rally people. Now we rally ourselves around the World Cup to buy more beers and more products.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Oh yeah, hey, nothing or rally humanity more than um the mission of populating a dead planet. I mean that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Well, I I I don't I don't know the uh uh there's a lot of uh uh people being driven to look at uh beef prices uh this week uh in the US.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

Uh yeah, and you you have a great but you have a great point on that because it depends on the economic context. The economic context of the 60s was such that we're still post-world war and very high growth and boomers and everything. People were not starving. When people start starving, the problems changes, obviously. And by starving it's really radioactive, but we are actually on the trends in most of our Western civilization with so much inequality that people are starting to starve. And it's not just a few, it's more and more and more and more.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

You know, the beef price thing, as a fourth generation Texas cattle rancher, it hits home for me. And yes, it's and as much as I spend time with my farming friends, which I love doing that too, I kind of joke with them. I go, you know what people like better than vegetables? A bacon freaking cheeseburger every day of the week. Yeah, yes, sir. When you go when you go to celebrate a big event, what do you do? Get a bunch of okra or something? No, no, you get a steak. And so it's a thing. And you know, it's such a weird dichotomy, you know, um with coming out and saying, oh, well, we're just gonna get more beef from Chile or Argentina or Venezuela, you know, whatever. Uh, which and it pissed all the cattle ranchers off, right, here in the US. You know, we've this is such a random topic, obviously. I think what was the news? Our our herds of livestock of cattle now is at the same level as it was like in the 50s or something, like it's been massively declining.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Yeah. Uh yes, uh, the size, size of the herd uh declining. Uh price, the price being paid to the farmers per pound declining, the price that we consumers pay our retail climbing. And then on top of this, there's I I don't know what the number of kilos or tons are that are being imported that technically, uh, should allow us consumers to buy beef at a lesser product, but that's at odds with the production of American beef. Because to Dimitri's point, if we are not quite starving, but maybe there, and I have two choices of uh of beef chuck, and one came from I cannot even pronounce this place, but it's 10, 20, 30 percent cheaper than the one from the ranch I recognize. Uh dude, I I love my ranchers, but I I need to buy the okra, so I'm gonna buy the cheaper.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

But you know, this is this is I need to eat.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

Yeah, this is the problem with science fiction, is it desensitizes us from like a lot of these apocalyptic scenarios, uh you know, where we just it it just seems normal, and I I don't know. You know, that whole analogy of uh you know a frog in a boiling pot.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

It's all of us. It's like it's all of us, it's the whole population, they don't know it. Yeah, they don't know it. Yeah, the whole the the decline of beef though, with uh cattle in the US is it's been insane droughts, there's been all kinds of actual problems, headwinds that have led to that. It didn't it didn't just happen because of supply and demand. Um when we talk about kind of mother nature headwinds that cause problems for everything, it's just getting worse. You know, I mean look around this summer, it's been hotter than hell, the whole country's on fire and flooding in these places.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

I mean, it's bonkers, just dude. It was 94 degrees. I was at uh I was at the Qualcomm headquarters, it's pretty close to the water, right? 94 degrees, man. That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Terrible, yeah, humid, like I mean, we're you know, we're hot and humid in La Jolla, man. No, it's not real. That's yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my daughter's in LA and she's like, we're just burning alive. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Yeah, yeah, this should not be happening too.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

We're used to it being hot, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

But but at least, but at least the national debt that's solved too.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

At least we solved the $40 trillion national debt, so we're gonna go there to work building. Is it seemed like there's multiple car wrecks happening at the same time in slow motion? Multiple not just one, it's like parallel car wrecks all happening.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

It's like a pileup. What a time to be alive.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Yeah, it is, but you're really just people are really disconnected from the reality of how life actually works.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

But this is the weird thing. People will say that you're just being pessimistic and negative. Right. Yeah you're you're grouchy. Um, how come you can't be positive? Uh my whole thing is like, um, how can you not see what's going on and not be just a little bit concerned? And the only thing you can care about is the valuation of a particular stock.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:44

And I totally eliminate your thinking.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

It's all grouchy, you're complaining, and what do they always say? Hey, stop complaining and come up with a solution. Don't be one of those guys. I'm like, okay, okay, I'm complaining, and I wrote a bunch of shit.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

Yeah, I mean, no, seriously, for seven years, what have we been doing every weekend? Every week. We're sharing, and we actually articulate what the blueprint for solving problems are in a very whiny and complaining kind of way, but hopefully a little bit entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

With music.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

And you know, and and we we do have to let our audience know, like we are so thankful because through your donations, we have finally uh built the bunker in New Zealand. Uh, so it's right next to Peter's. You know, you know which Peter I'm talking about. Pete's her neighbor. Weird guy, likes to walk around naked in his orchard, but you know, we're we're not judgmental. Anyway, our bunker in New Zealand has been. There's a couple of miles in between. So it's something you're exploring the land. I see. Thanks, thanks to our fans. We will be safe from the uh from the apocalypse.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

Yeah. And we're gonna have a lottery to see who can come with us to our bunker. And that's like other sci-fi movies you've seen.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Yeah, yeah. I I I I already to I already told my kids you're you're not coming uh because there's less food. So, you know, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

If a comet was heading towards the earth right now, and you knew it was.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

I saw that movie.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

You have, and people would be like, oh shit, all hands on deck, we gotta do whatever we gotta do. But because people are allowed to live in nice air-conditioning houses and they go to shopping malls and they're driving their electric cars, they think everything's just fine. I'm fine here, we're all fine.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Rob, you're you're you're you're joking. But if the if the terminal event um comet was on our way and it hit us, and maybe another advanced society 1500 years from now puts together, you know, what what were the last few minutes on planet Earth, and it would just be TikTok videos?

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Yeah, yeah, TikTok videos. You're right.

unknown 54:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Whatever they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Yes, whatever they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Dimitri, you were gonna say something. No, okay. Well, no, it's so what I was gonna in my reaction to what I don't I I don't want YouTube to remove the videos. Okay, yeah, no, no, no, we can't don't do no no politics stuff. Um but no, you know how like uh you watch a horror horror movie, and uh and people always go, oh man, it's like well, why is that person going to that dark room, you know, with the creepy music and stuff like that, right? And then of course that person is like slowly creeping in, and you have no idea. Why the hell is that person even going in there? If it was me, I'd be scared of crapless, and I would just run away. And then, of course, they get killed, massacred in a really horrific way, and then everyone goes, Oh geez, I mean, how come they didn't know? How did they not know? That's that's us.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

And luckily, it's in the book. Chainsaw detection is everybody that's everybody. Chainsaw detection is designed to stop poaching and killing uh you know species that are going extinct. But if you need to use it for a chainsaw massacre scenario movie, absolutely. So it's a little I'd said you know, try to keep AI out of this. There's a couple of use cases, and that's one of them where you're you have to use an ML model to listen for the sound of a chainsaw, but absolutely use that in case you're going into that road.

SPEAKER_04 55:45

Don't put the chainsaw on and drawn. Don't put the chainsaw on and run.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

Oh, oh, that could be a cool movie. Yeah. Another B sci-fi horror.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

Well, I mean, it it's the uh I don't know what the name is in the name in English, Massacre à la tronçonneuse, but the old horror movie with a chainsaw, it was a human next generation, it's just a machine with AI.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Texas chain Texas chainsaw massacre.

SPEAKER_04 56:10

Okay, yeah. It's drones, not drones. Now it's data center chainsaw massacre.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

If we can have snakes on a plane, then we can have drones with chainsaws. Yeah, I mean, you know, think about it.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

If they apply to IoT, that your that use case, there would be no uh Texas chainsaw massacre.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

No.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

No, it's not like you can just you know turn on a chainsaw and then it's going. You have to go a couple of times, you have to pull that cord, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

No, no, it's an early warning system. See, that's the thing. If you had a nice American-made chainsaw, that thing starts right away. Please wear your safety pants. PPE is important. You don't wanna you don't want to lose a leg. Yeah, yeah. Smart before we ship production to uh to China.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

I heard that to keep stirring the plot here today, I heard that all of a sudden lumber and aluminum and stuff were getting more expensive. Oh, because the rental is a very important thing.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Are those things that we used to import from our neighbors up north by chance?

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Lumber? Yeah, they had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Oh god, how did that happen? I mean, right, because we we we were not trading with those guys, so wait a minute, we were trading with them. Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

I didn't realize we were trading with them.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

We're gonna get banned. Let's let's not do it.

SPEAKER_03 57:30

Yeah. Well, you know, um our a lot of our uh automakers make cars up there, so now American cars are more expensive. 50%, right? Is it yeah?

SPEAKER_00 57:46

I don't know. Good, you know, but you know, as long as we have like a 9,000 percent tariff on Chinese imports, we'll be okay. You know, if uh uh I should have kept my Civic, my 2002 Honda Civic would probably be would probably be worth what I pay for in 2002.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

Uh yeah, because then our future is gonna be like the same as living in Cuba, where we're gonna have to keep the cars going, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

I mean, uh no, no, but joke jokes aside, I don't know if you know uh joke with that with the software in those new cases. If you you know our our friends are going to our friends' kids are in are going to have been going to college for a couple of years, and you know, those that need a car, the thing used to be, you know, you buy a safe car. And we used to be able to buy a safe car, no frills, for I don't know, call it like 20 grand for a a Yaris or or safe, you know, like a small you you you can't. You you just you just can't. Like I think the least expensive car brand new you can buy in the US is gonna set you back like I don't know, like 3637, and it's probably a Kia. No offense against Kia. I'm just saying, you know, I I grew up with Japanese imports. You buy a Japanese car and you'll run it forever. And it's it's so expensive. It's it's insane.

SPEAKER_04 59:06

Not to mention that you have to soon you're gonna have to buy the subscription that goes with it, and if you stop canceling your subscription, the car will not start anymore.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

So as we always recommend everyone, make sure you get a car from the 20th century that's fully mechanical that you can work on yourself for the dark when the dark times come.

SPEAKER_03 59:26

The EMP hits.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

The EMP hits. You're gonna be so happy, you know. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Damn it.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

Lots of good advice. Folks, do your job. It is that time. You have come to the end of another informational, awesome episode where you hear everything. How to save the world, talk about Soviet technology, talk about saving the environment. We recommend awesome books on how to save the world. I know this thing is blurry, but this is Saving the Earth with the IoT from our author in house, Rob Tiffany. And also, if you didn't catch the Napoleon comment, The Battle of Waterloo people, we educate here. We educate you in IoT Coffee Talk. So uh please uh continue to um tune in every week. Tell your friends, tell your cousins, and tell your everyone who cannot afford uh a car that they should listen to this and feel better about not affording the car somehow.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

So without we already solved the edge computing problem. Listen to all episodes, stop screwing up.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

We bring solutions to modern problems. So with that, we will see you next week on another episode of IoT, Coffee Talk, and uh Save the Internet. Peace out. Peace out.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

Recording stopped.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

We're twins.